[AtlasMeCH]

All that I can do is post this site and say the following...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_art

The principles of art:

Movement
Emphasis
Unity
Harmony
Variety
Balance
Contrast
Proportion
Pattern
Inversion (My personal addition)

If starcraft was striving for balance, there would be at least a consideration of all the principles of art so that the game can attain at least to a great degree what it strives for... to be an art.

But not just an art... "The Art"

Concept: "Using A DEGREE of inversion of functionality to achieve uniqueness with out sacrificing proportional balance"


Inverting irrational functionality (The ratio between offensive and economic function of T and P) to achieve a totally unique function(Zerg) with out sacrificing balance.

The beauty of it is that it is a synthesis of protoss and terran conceptually.

The spawning pool producing defense linearly is comparable to the linear out put of the marine from the barrack. The marine technically being terran's defense as it is put in a bunker.

The spawning pool having a creep radius and being able to be placed anywhere... similar to the pylon.

Yet still actually being totally unique in the sense that defense isn't made by economy.

Defense can also be moved around which gives it that degree of offensiveness allowing it to not be fully classified as some set in stone type.

Zerg can't mass produce defense so suddenly anymore? That's fine... isn't that why zerg have queens and transfusion? is not spines and one full mana queen greater then 3 spines if four transfusions can be cast?

Personally, i think it would be really fun to proxy a pool, and then uproot it and try to crawl it back to my base in order to save it.

Quick Comments

	Sc2Clare:	please stop this...
	Daboo:	lol shut.

[syfChadMann]

Dude.. the reason why people think this game is imbalanced is because all the races have their individual edge and strength.. That makes the game interesting!.. the fact that races are different gives the game depth.
If you want 'PURE BALANCE'.. then you'd have to play Mirror match ups all day.. the fact that the game is not balanced in particular ways.. makes the game fun and exciting.. each race has their strength.. each race has their weaknesses.

If you don't understand that - your a moron. Game design isn't about being perfect.. its about the balance offsets that make the game enjoyable...
If it was balanced.. there would only be 1 race.. and everyone would do the same build every single ****ing time - would that be fun?

[Cyanide]

Can't wait for you to design your own RTS, I bet it's gonna blow Blizzard out of the water.

Quick Comments

mGGDaedalus:

The three races will be red, green and blue

[Bendy]

I feel like some of these statements could be confused with the scrawlings of a mental patient on his asylum wall, in his own feces.

Or at the very least I'm getting a Dr Steinman from Bioshock vibe.

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Atlas, just hold up a minute. You said that your were going to stop posting... 7 posts ago. o_O

As you may or may not have realised by now, most of the people in this thread aren't taking you seriously. They are probably the sane ones. Also, go back and re-read nirvAnA's post. Very well written and concise.

Now, a couple of questions.

Is Starcraft 2 a game or art?
If it is art, then why should we take it seriously competitively?
If it is a game, why do we care about symmetry?
How are you gonna manage to run a proxy spawning pool from the enemy base back to your own without it getting killed?
Why would we want to build a bunch more queens when we don't need to? You did mention at one point they are NOT cost effective, but then go and say we would be forced to use them because we can't drop 4 spines at once!

Finally, though I do not believe that you should be using the art definition of balance, here it is...

Definition:
(noun) - As a basic principle of art (specifically of design), balance refers to the ways in which the elements (lines, shapes, colors, textures, etc.) of a piece are arranged. Balance is one of those useful terms to know, if one is to employ Art Speak.

Balance can be symmetrical ("formal"), where elements are given equal "weight" from an imaginary line in the middle of a piece. For the most basic example of symmetry, think of your eyes in relation to either side of your nose.

Balance doesn't necessarily mean symmetry, though. Asymmetrical ("informal") balance occurs when elements are placed unevenly in a piece, but work together to produce harmony overall.

Hey, will you look at that, 'Balance doesn't necessarily mean symmetry...'. Turns out, in Starcraft 2, the elements (different races, units, abilities and mechanics) are placed unevenly within the game, 'but work together to produce harmony overall.'. Looking at the tournament results there is a pretty good harmony between the races. I mean other than the fact that they're always killing each other.

Hope you enjoy reading this response, and then completely ignoring all points made and posting about colours again.

[NvRossi]

Atlas you have my Undivided Attention

You Tube

You Tube

Quick Comments

Champi:

i love your work, i think it's only getting better

[ZergGirl]

I believe in you AtlasMeCH. Ignore the haters!

[HaNdFisH]

I finally got around to reading through the OP's wall of text. Im sorry but all it does is remind me of this:

You Tube

You Tube

[nard]

Hey for true balance each player is only allowed to build 10 marines and meet in an open space to fight it out.

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Originally Posted by nard

Hey for true balance each player is only allowed to build 10 marines and meet in an open space to fight it out.

Nah, no mining, no building just a straight up fight between 6 SCVs all with auto-repair on.

[AtlasMeCH]

@ Bugalugs

Would you define what "over all harmony" is?

Like, provide a solid example of artwork that is asymmetrical yet has harmony overall?

Doesn't this suggest over all proportionality?


I want you to observe the art on this website...

http://www.allgraphicdesign.com/grap...-the-question/

Did you observe the "asymmetrical" art piece?

http://allgraphicdesign.com/graphics...signcarpet.jpg

It has PROPORTIONAL HARMONY

That's the key phrase I think I'm trying to get at here... proportional harmony...

Because Terran and Protoss "Produce Offense Generally Separate From economy"

I'm saying that it makes sense for the sake of proportional harmony that zerg would "Produce Defense Linearly Separate from economy"

Compare and contrast

"produce OFFENSE GENERALLY separate from economy"
"produce DEFENSE LINEARLY separate from economy"

It has proportional harmony and therefore balance...

My argument is that with out proportional harmony, there is not balance, there is not art.

Final statement: My opinion is that a lack of proportional harmony of race functionality is holding the balance of the game back for zerg.

Quick Comments

	Cyanide:	your abstract theories are making you a poor, confused and lost soul.
	nirvAnA:	Have to agree with cynaide

[ZergGirl]

right on the money AtlasMeCH.

They just don't understand sadly.

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Hehehe, I shouldn't have put in the art bit, but anyways.

My questions that you conveniently ignored, again.

Is Starcraft 2 a game or art?
If it is art, then why should we take it seriously competitively?
If it is a game, why do we care about symmetry?
How are you gonna manage to run a proxy spawning pool from the enemy base back to your own without it getting killed?
Why would we want to build a bunch more queens when we don't need to? You did mention at one point they are NOT cost effective, but then go and say we would be forced to use them because we can't drop 4 spines at once!

I guess my biggest bugbear is the fact that you keep coming back to art, but Starcraft 2 is designed as a sport.

Maybe you should watch/listen to this talk by Dustin Browder, lead designer for Starcraft 2.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014488...n-of-STARCRAFT
He mentioned that various segments of the dev team hate him (jokingly of course), but one was the art team. Art was not the highest priority, eSports was. Starcraft 2 is a game, not art.

[Meatex]

Doesn't this suggest over all proportionality?

for someone who is clearly an art 101 you don't understand what you are talking about
Picaso was famous for doing the exact opposite but is one of the most famous artists on the planet

Instead of trying to use unrelated concepts to back up your concept (and even asking others to do what you repeatedly refuse to do by giving evidence) try thinking how that would affect gameplay.

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

for someone who is clearly an art 101 you don't understand what you are talking about
Picaso was famous for doing the exact opposite but is one of the most famous artists on the planet

Instead of trying to use unrelated concepts to back up your concept (and even asking others to do what you repeatedly refuse to do by giving evidence) try thinking how that would affect gameplay.

Picaso played Random irl, please keep up.

*gently pats you*

[|Erasmus|]

I just want to ask you atlas, to please explain how a Planetary Fortress works... you can't build scvs when you are morphing your command center, so it is not linearly producing defence separately from economy.

Quick Comments

Cyanide:

i like where you are going with this

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

I just want to ask you atlas, to please explain how a Planetary Fortress works... you can't build scvs when you are morphing your command center, so it is not linearly producing defence separately from economy.

Damn, I can't give you rep.

But at least someone here is thinking instead of having fun just ing.

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

I just want to ask you atlas, to please explain how a Planetary Fortress works... you can't build scvs when you are morphing your command center, so it is not linearly producing defence separately from economy.

Didn't he ask for something similar (to a PF) for zerg and protoss? i can't remember through all these pages now D;

FOR SYMMETRY! HARMONIC BALANCE! love man, love.

Quick Comments

|Erasmus|:

Cause he thinks zergs already have a problem with cutting workers to produce defense ;)

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

ZergGirl, I don't think you are taking this seriously.

Quick catch up. Atlas suggests that he thought that Zerg needed a defensive upgrade for the Hatchery in BW and then Blizzard went and gave Terrans Planetary Fortress. He wants to take that from Terrans and give it to Zerg. Personally I think it would look weird with this giant mechanical turret sitting on the top of a Hatch, but that's just me.

Picaso did play Random because it's the only race worth playing.

Another question I did think Atlas, though please answer it after you've answered my previous questions...

Why do Zerg need help if the general public fear a Zergling Rush, but not a Marine Rush?

[mGGDaedalus]

Starcraft is not art! Its a fricken video game!