[Zealo]

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1201
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1202

these are two of mafia's games i analysed, i'm sorry i didn't make a video but i'm sure people will get the point...

vs Inori, shakuras

3:50 sends lings to check third, where there just happens to be a probe

7:10 pulls overlords back over the hatchery for protection as soon as the void ray pops up on the production tab

7:15 - 7:50 he hasn't scouted inori's main all game (or even confirmed that inori has a nexus in the 7 oclock base, for all mafia knows he could be doing some fancy 'FFE to the OTHER natural' metagame cheese) now he looks in the fog of war and sends his over lord DIRECTLY to where the stargate is. this scouting path just happens to 'luckily' also fly over the robo and 2 gateways as they almost finish

notice how he timed the overlord scout with his production tab to gain vision of the stargate EXACTLY when the void popped.
at no point between sending the overlord on this 'lucky' scouting path and the overlord dying does his camera look at this overlord in inoris main, he doesn't click on the buildings being warped in (or even put the camera over them) to see what they are since he already knows. he doesn't see what the overlord is being attacked by (sentries or stalkers) or how many because he's been watching his production tab instead.

he starts spores at 7:48 before even 'seeing' the stargate or voidray

7:55 looks through the fog at inori's base, then drags the camera southeast until it is centred on the void ray. in the wise words of a certain zerg...
"No sane player will look at opponent's map without doing anything(e.g. sending a unit into it). Any seasoned veteran will tell you the same."

9:10 takes 4th because he knows the void is at the bottom of the map and not going to shut it down



vs inori, metropolis

3:45 takes third without checking for probe this game since he knows it's not there

7:10 starts an evo as soon as the prod tab shows dark shrine

7:20 looks at inori's base through the fog, sends overlord directly to the dark shrine

8:00 drags his camera through the fog to pause briefly on inori's natural then main, directly over the dark shrine
"No sane player will look at opponent's map without doing anything(e.g. sending a unit into it). Any seasoned veteran will tell you the same."

8:15 makes a spore at each base, just happen to time out exactly when the dark shrine finishes

8:30 inori starts a third, mafia chooses this EXACT moment to send a ling to scout for the third, which he didn't check for for at all last game. but this game he does, and what do you know, there's a nexus there! "we'll give him that"

8:55 sends his lings DIRECTLY to the only proxy pylon, which he shouldn't have vision of

9:35 looks at inori's wall which he has no vision of. he probably thinks he has vision, but doesn't realise that beam of light his ling is next to is a line of sight blocker.
"No sane player will look at opponent's map without doing anything(e.g. sending a unit into it). Any seasoned veteran will tell you the same."

9:45 note the scouting rally of the overser takes it directly over the dark shrine and twighlight, then arround the cannon and over all the gateways inori just threw down. pretty lucky! he just happens to decide to check out inori's main right as blink starts researching

11:30 looks in the fog at 12 oclock and sends his army to deal with the DT there he can 'see' there

14:20 note how the spire is timed to finish right after the robo bay? "we'll give him that"

15:20 just happens to be a fourth you hadn't seen at all yet. luckily his whole army's on an attack command straight there before the cannons can finish!

17:00 again great timing hitting the 4th!


(i know someone will think i'm actually think i'm accusing mafia of hacking, i can't prevent that)

Quick Comments

	SanG:	These posts don't help your mate. Chill
	Zepph:	Just stop.
	iMSystem:	Cute troll, but all these are dispelled via timings
	mGGAequitas:	this is an excellent point, i'm sure if you are looking for it you can find evidence to accuse anyone of mhing
	Snx.Mufasa:	>_>
	Rage:
	Dox:	this is actually really clever
	Zombie.:
	UHF:	Counter rep - a point i brought up, just poorly executed
	crAzerk:	people need to internalize the point made here, not just acknowledge it.
	ToRSpartaz:	Strong point.
	Sedz:	A++, would read again
	nirvAnA:	he makes a very good point
	FaDeHellfyre:	Very good point
	xGKingdelete:	if you were well known on sc2sea, those first 3 reps wouldn't be negative

[Rage]

Way to miss the point guys - He's simply pointing out how with enough bias, anything looks mildly suspicious.

Quick Comments

	Zepph:	Yes but hes giving his bsg analysis of a gm game. No regard for what you can tell from a toss by what they DONT show.
	Snx.FigJig:	Agreed, lots of accusations are "Of course he would do X so he doesn't look like hes hacking"
	nirvAnA:

[iMSystem]

Originally Posted by Rage

Way to miss the point guys - He's simply pointing out how with enough bias, anything looks mildly suspicious.

Everyone saw the point, it was a dumb post.

All of his 'accusations' can be rebuked by saying it's a timing thing, which means his post holds no weight and is a waste of white space.


I agree in saying that anything can look legit with enough bias behind it, but that isn't one way of showing it.

Quick Comments

	Zepph:
	Snx.Mufasa:	-> Everyone saw the point, it was a dumb post.

[Rage]

Plenty of the points he made were not timing

Quick Comments

Zealo:

i don't know you but ♥

[Zealo]

at the least i'd like to see mafia take back or defend this claim:

"No sane player will look at opponent's map without doing anything(e.g. sending a unit into it). Any seasoned veteran will tell you the same."

Quick Comments

	mGGAequitas:	neg rep for bringing up valid points against someone the community likes
	iMSystem:	I'm all ears
	syfChadMann:	don't neg rep people calling them retards - this is a mature discussion. Don't bring it to that level.

[Rage]

Discussing the existing replays of CHobo is pointless. The evidence in them is NOT sufficient to condemn anyone for hacking.

Until new analysis or new replays come up, there is nothing new to say.

[CHoBo(kice)]

I got no rep left.

TY Zealo

TY tgun

TY UHF

TY Flaunt for your honesty in pm you sent me this morning, takes a lot of courage for what you said. I really appreciate your sympathy.

TY Nemo

Quick Comments

Dox:

i want a TY ):

[Peleus]

I'll leave it as I've presented everything I wanted to say. I just want to make a few more points before leaving this thread.

Tguns replays - No, I don't believe he is maphacking in these games. The point however is no one is claiming that he is cheating every single game ever played. If I decided to cheat in a tournament tomorrow there would be a total of 5-6 replays that are suspect of me, and I could provide you ~4000 replays of me not. It doesn't change the fact that I'd need to explain what happened in those 5-6 replays.

Many of the explanations for example the vikings in tgun's analysis may be explained on their own. In isolation no single incident looks amazingly suspect. When looking at the big picture such as the turn around on shak etc it paints a different story imo.

Oh well, I've said my piece.

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by Zealo

people keep ignoring you (despite you repeating yourself over and ******* over) because:

1) there are flat out accusations coming from much highly respected members of the community. are you really arrogant enough to think chobo is going to spend time dealing with your concerns before mafia or rossi?

2) your accusations are mutually exclusive. you accuse him of looking at things through the fog of war on the replay AND of having 'screen locks' (a feature of hacks which prevents the replay showing you looking in the fog) no one can really take that seriously.

you get my respect though for obviously having watched at least one replay before posting

Seriously, you need to show some respect.

I've watch ALL the replays many times, and spent hours on my analysis. No need for some dumb condescending post saying "no one can take you seriously" and "at least you watched one replay before posting".

1. I'm not being arrogant at all, people have already responded to Mafia and Rossi's attacks, how is it arrogant to expect a response? AT LEAST SOME KIND. But now maybe its better that noone responds because you people have some of the most retarded logic.

2. Also, my accusations are just a few examples, they happen in many games. I didn't say he had a screen lock, I just noted times when he looked straight into fog of war.

Also, i noted patterns in gameplay such as playing very blind in all his TvZ's and then he happens to scan in the only games where there is spire tech + other observations.

[CHoBo(kice)]

nononononononononnonoononononononononon **** **** **** *********** *****

Who the **** do you think you are?

Seriously guys, calling Zealo BSG... BIG CALLS...

The best 2v2 players on SEA and high masters practising with GM's

I might add his post is creative, and wow yes he's trying to stick up for me because he knows I am innocent... but who are you to slander his reputation like that?

It's enough that mine is tarnished enough already for no reason... Nobody else should suffer that fate.

Just ******* focus on the matter at hand

EDIT: TY Dox

- Spartaz its not swear i promise its just stars

Quick Comments

	ToRSpartaz:	Careful mate, less swearing and more manner. I can clearly see your trying to stand up for your team mate and a good guy
	Dox:	yaaaaaaaay i got a ty
	Zealo:	you forgot best cannon rusher in perth and most handsome random in australia

[souljah]

I think that the most important point that TABiggun keeps raising is the fact that AsGChobo has a high tendency to play blind against the top of the SEA ladder. I may be a protoss player, but I have always been shitting my pants at around 12 mins because I do not know whether it is muta or roach play. Hence, I will always want to get the watch towers or send an obs in before then to know what tech route he is going.

However, in several of the games, Chobo does not scan at the appropriate timings to find out if his opponents are going muta-ling or ling-infestor, and does not spread his marines at his mineral lines in the event that mutas may be appearing at that said timing and dealing terrible economic damage. Either he has such excellent game sense that he knows they are not coming, or he has seriously meta-gamed Mafia into not going mutas.

[Nadir]

Curiously, what is on offer in the way of reparations if Chobo is proven innocent? It hardly seems fair to be able to just accuse someone of hacking and shit all over their reputation without putting something of your own on the line.

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

Most likely an apology - but read nirvAnA's warning

[Maynarde]

If you're not adding replays or analysis DON'T POST.

Quick Comments

	inFeZa:	awww i wanted to post a condescending gif. T_T
	Pandan:	You can always PM the gif virally. I'd appreciate it!
	EveSigns:	post adds no replays or analysis
	mGGAequitas:	hypocrisy is awesome :)

[mGGDaedalus]

At this point the replays provided have been carefully analysed with viewpoints from both sides of the argument. It seems there are moments that seem suspicious, but nothing that couldn't be explained away. While I'm sure most people have made their minds up one way or the other, I really don't think it's possible to say chobo is without a doubt a maphacker and I wouldn't feel right condemning him purely on circumstancial evidence.

Surely all the gm players in here have bumped into chobo on ladder from time to time, are there more recent replays that can be brought forward to be analysed? Otherwise I don't see how this thread can really move forward.

[CHoBo(kice)]

Due to the fact logging on to SEA gets me minimum 10 hate pms "HACKER" or what not, I really don't want to play on SEA any more regardless of outcome of findings. Sure NA can be a bit harsh in terms of bad manner, but at least not in this regard. Just a sad really, because its not innocent until proven guilty. This is guilty until proven innocent >.>

Anyway when I feel a little better, I will go on NA and play some games and upload all games for analysis.

Quick Comments

	NvJazBas:	Do you have any stream or recording device of your games? would help
	Fourby:	QQ, running away seems like a good option -.-
	FvRelimzkE:	Even if your net is shit, you can record locally and upload 2 youtube
	TAEdgE:	you can set it so only friends can message you :)
	UHF:	I don't blame you - you copped enough flak before all this started
	mGGAequitas:	they jealous at your mad skills, all top players have their haters
	MrToast:	♥ you Kice

[SanG]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Due to the fact logging on to SEA gets me minimum 10 hate pms "HACKER" or what not, I really don't want to play on SEA any more regardless of outcome of findings. Just a sad really, because its not innocent until proven guilty. This is guilty until proven innocent >.>

Anyway when I feel a little better, I will go on NA and play some games and upload all games for analysis.

That's too blatant of a call for sympathy, considering you can actual block pms from people not in your f-list.

While i'm still ambiguous on the matter, I reckon this whole thing was bound to happen, because of chobo's online record, lan performance and his playstyle, strength and weakness.

If it were up to me, with replays alone, you would not be considered a hacker, but there were reports of suss activity about you for a while now, and that's why people need more of a definitive proof.

Also, the bold part is messed up

[foxmeep]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Due to the fact logging on to SEA gets me minimum 10 hate pms "HACKER" or what not, I really don't want to play on SEA any more regardless of outcome of findings. Sure NA can be a bit harsh in terms of bad manner, but at least not in this regard. Just a sad really, because its not innocent until proven guilty. This is guilty until proven innocent >.>

Anyway when I feel a little better, I will go on NA and play some games and upload all games for analysis.

I haven't read the majority of this thread so I am in no way passing judgement one way or another... but that isn't going to help at all buddy. You're clearly not going to hack (assuming you ever did) in any subsequent games after being accused of hacking.

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by foxmeep

I haven't read the majority of this thread so I am in no way passing judgement one way or another... but that isn't going to help at all buddy. You're clearly not going to hack (assuming you ever did) in any subsequent games after being accused of hacking.

It's the only thing I can really do, because those games I was actually not hacking in so yeah....

[TAriiChard]

Please tell us who has been email bombing you and pming you! We would all love to know! And how is this guilty until proven innocent? You haven't been punished yet so how are you guilty!?

Quick Comments

	Dox:	apparently spades is too, seems to be the thing to do lately
	AsGNabi:	If it's not obvious, his reputation will be tarnished regardless of the outcome.
	nirvAnA:	read the tone of the posts in the thread and multiple references of "concrete evidence"

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by TAriiChard

Please tell us who has been email bombing you and pming you! We would all love to know! And how is this guilty until proven innocent? You haven't been punished yet so how are you guilty!?

Why don't you tell me then? your the one sooooooooooooooooooooo consistent to try find out who is email bombing me to see if I know who it was??? that is kind of suspicious... of course anyone who email bomb wouldn't reveal their identity, it was spoofed name, email and message was pretty unoriginal. just sad.

I sent the troll email which I didn't delete to nirvana and up to him to investigate. The emails had to be removed from queue server side.

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	Ridiculous to hit back at riiChard like that. Uncalled for, he is trying to help.
	nGenLight:	Lol you idiot going after one of the few people who might actually have been empathizing you.
	nirvAnA:	I do not see help at all, i see sarcasm and doubt of chobo's claim.
	Champi:	disgusting to think anyone would doubt riichards sincerity, u should all know better