[AxSGRiM]

seems like the US scene is catching up with Spades Hacking. ^ LETS GO

[ROOT`iaguz]

Will edit this post as I watch more reps, currently using it as a notebook. Accusing someone who cashes a tourney of hacking is extremely serious.

G1 TvT vs Rossi. I didn't see too much weird here. If he knows anything about rossi he knows that he is a very frequent 1 rax FE into 3 rax player. The way he moves his banshee around and runs in his hellions makes a lot of sense. I imagine chobo plays extremely gay like that and is a frequent user of such a tactic and such quick decision making makes sense.

His turret placement in his main to deter your double drop is logical enough. He sends a dropship upon a mirrored path into your base at the same time he makes it. It is the most typical path people send their dropships too.

When he's running his marine/tank around his control is logical enough. At one point he scans, sees nothing in one area then almost walks into a bunch of marine tank and backs up sharpish. He does have a really good tactical sense with how he's handling a lot of his shit (and then he goes on to lose that game so... lol?).

The main thing I thought was fishy was when his army in the natural gets scouted so he throws out a scan and sees rossi's units. Whilst it's extremely common to read a scan as 'I'm going to be attacked soon/he's thinking of attacking' and that's sensible enough, his response (particularly the fact he doesn't man the watchtower) is a bit weird. But I'm not convinced at all going off this replay.

g2 vs Rossi on antiga. His cloakshee read is actually rather sensible. He spots your 2nd gas going up with his scv and judging by when your marine pops out he can read a 12 gas 13 rax opening. Gas first, fast second gas, cloak banshee is extremely likely. Most gas first builds featuring a wall off and a marine are generally that. His units aren't optimally positioned the stop your banshee when it hits. So far it's pretty normal.

His scan at 13:30 is a little bit fishy as his the confident army movements considering he has 0 information on where any of your shit is. Not sure if enough to suggest hacking but it is a touch fishy.

G1 and 2 vs TargA. Nothing weird here, just standard really gay marine scv all ins that TargA loses to that probably comprises most of Chobo's play. The positionings are logical enough, overlords rarely go that way at that time on ohana, and most zergs don't check the watchtower on daybreak. Even then, no amount of maphacks are going to tell you how a zerg will scout before you plant both those raxes.

G1 vs Yang. Yang scouts a 2 rax and then dies to it. Ok? Chobo scouts a highly likely 1 gate FE opening (it could almost be 4 gate, but the fact Yang made 3 pylons suggests it will not. Unless yang likes bad 4 gate BO's. A two rax with good micro can probably beat a bad 4 gate build maybe?) Nothing weird at all here.

G2 vs Yang. Chobo's scout timing is sensible enough. He has a pretty good timing sense of when the stalker is out and probably on the map. And if not, well, tis only an scv he'd lose. Nothing wrong at all there.

His wall off timing vs the 3 gate pressure is extremely fortunate but that's all it is. Fortunate. Note that he starts the first rax of the wall off well before he could make a read (assuming he's hacking) that that sort of pressure is hacking. Also note that he was at 49/54 supply when he threw those 2 depots down. He needs to make 2 depots to ensure that he's not getting blocked.

at 11:00, he zooms in and out to try and see an observer. Someone who is hacking wouldn't have to do that. Maybe it's something thrown in to try and make you think he's not hacking but it's something. His proxy pylon search makes sense (he does miss a small patch of ground, true, but that's probably because he's just bad)

at 16:30 he loads up a doom drop underneath an observer and promptly flies into a pylon. Just what a hacker would do!

at 17:30 he throws a scan that misses yangs army compeltely. Just what a hacker would do!

Barely anything suspicious in these two games I think. Chobo just did the right things and yang lost I guess I dunno.

VS ender on metropolis. He's not prepared for 6 lings at the start. A hacker would have that bunker loaded up in time. He's also busy trying to hunt an overlord that's currently in the corner of the map. A hacker would know that.

at 7:40 an overlord scouts his base. A hacker could see the dot and realise that he'd have to position marines to stop that.

His first viking goes around trying to find overlords. A hacker would know where they are and where they are not. Eventually he finds it, but it's at a sensible position to look so w/e.

His doom drop is sensible enough. That's a bitch of a position to defend, he's cleared the ovies out with his viking and he can intuit that with roaches and a 3rd like that there'll be no mutas or infestors to **** it up. Nothing weird at all.

at 15 he's got a group of marines slaughtering lings and roaches. A good engage for him! then fungals plop on all his marines. A hacker would know that there was infestors there. he did not.

at 20 he completely misses enders army when he moves out and then runs over burrowed banes. At this point I've turned the replay off. No hacker runs over burrowed banelings! Nothing so far suggests he has hacked, he's making good and bad decisions. I think Chobo just had a really good run on sunday.

VS ENDER ON OHANA

double bunker wall off chobo? A dishonourable move

7:03-4 he salvages it just as the queens start to attack it, watch it again Tim. He can also safely guess there's no speedling tech finished yet because he saw when the first gas started

7:42 He does look through fog of war but I think that's to double check to confirm how much he knows about enders possible tech. He may also have been thinking about doing a scan but decided not to. I've done this before myself. Also if he has production tab hacks then there would be no reason to look at enders base to know what tech he has and what amount of gas he has or even how many geysers he has with maphacks.

Where he rallies his vikings is the 2 areas where zergs always position overlords on this map you don't even have to scout them. It's a little weird he changes the direction of the rally though, I'll give you that, but you can guarantee that 100% of the time zergs have overlords in those 2 positions. His viking also just moves around the whole map clearing overlords. There's absolutely nothing weird about how his viking is countering overlords.

@11:28... huh? I don't see what you mean tim. It's a very common practice to check for lings at your 3rd before you float your CC there. Nothing strange at all.

@12:45 this was kind of weird. He looks up at his viking as it passes over the watchtower, but he looks after it's gone over the tower and doesn't seen his viking back to take another look. This is really strange I'll grant you that.

@ 13:30 yea... that is a little strange. I mean he does have 3 depots going up and it makes sense that you'd have to guard them from possible ling run bys but it's weird that after a long while of not doing anything with hellions he moves them over a little and hey there's lings there how 'bout that?

@ 14:40 being worried about counter attacks and leaving a few units behind is just standard practice.

@ 16:00 He'd spotted enders 3rd hatchery at 10 minutes with his hellions. It's not a huge leap of logic from there to assume that an economically battered zerg who is trying to double expand is not teching into mutalisks any time soon. Considering how active chobo was on the map, I think he anti-muta plan is to keep playing, if there's mutas the first thing they'll do is go for one of my attacking units at which point I'll make turrets.

But you are right he definitely should make at least 1 turret at each base. Not sure if good game sense, luck or hacks.

Again I don't think there's anything godly starsense about his viking. He flies it around to clear overlords like a normal terran. Ender puts out overlords for him to kill. He only flies the viking in safe areas so queens don't kill it and infestors probably won't either. It's just sensible terran play.

@16:54 no he doesn't. He has an scv finish making a depot but it finishes on the wrong side. He sees it, selects it, scrolls down to get it back to mining and oh shit zerglings.. There's nothing weird about that at all.

@17:18 it's a bit weird he reissues the move commands for his dropships, but you'll note he just moves through the zergling anyway, so..... ok? Not sure what to make of that really.

@19:39 I think at this point he knows there's no way he could lose this game so he's just doing a huge mass a move. It could easily be that. He rallies all his production because why not? He's insanely ahead at this point and he knows it.



My conclusion with Chobo is that he could potentially be a hacker, its' definitely possible and I don't blame people for thinking that, but there's not definitive enough proof in my eyes that he is. He seems to be one of those goody/elfi/SjoW types who does like 10,000 things like a retard but 5,000 weird but incredibly correct things and manages to win games.

Watched the mafia daybreak game. He's not hacking at all. For a start, 11/11 seems a weird strategy for a hacker to do seeing as it's incredibly all in/risky but w/e this is just speculation from me.

Mafia sees his scv but doesn't react to it. Chobo waits until he's sure the drone hasn't scouted his raxes, assumes that mafia assumes that it's a scouting scv and starts the second rax. He sits on the watch tower to confirm this. 'Most' terrans might only go for proxy 1 rax but clearly chobo is not most terrans.

And he sees the drones coming down the ramp when he starts retreating his marines. He keeps his marines back a bit because this is the response he is looking for from mafia. Remember this guy 11/11's a LOT of ******* times. He's honed it

EDIT- watched the shakuras game...

Ok what the **** was that shit. really.

Quick Comments

	Snx.FigJig:
	nirvAnA:	<3 the neutral analysis and thx for highlighting the missed scans and other stuff hackers wont do
	xGKingdelete:
	Zealo:	terran analysis of terran
	x5.Revenant:	Ok what the **** was that shit. really.

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

Will edit this post as I watch more reps, currently using it as a notebook. Accusing someone who cashes a tourney of hacking is extremely serious.

G1 TvT vs Rossi. I didn't see too much weird here. If he knows anything about rossi he knows that he is a very frequent 1 rax FE into 3 rax player. The way he moves his banshee around and runs in his hellions makes a lot of sense. I imagine chobo plays extremely gay like that and is a frequent user of such a tactic and such quick decision making makes sense.

His turret placement in his main to deter your double drop is logical enough. He sends a dropship upon a mirrored path into your base at the same time he makes it. It is the most typical path people send their dropships too.

When he's running his marine/tank around his control is logical enough. At one point he scans, sees nothing in one area then almost walks into a bunch of marine tank and backs up sharpish. He does have a really good tactical sense with how he's handling a lot of his shit (and then he goes on to lose that game so... lol?).

The main thing I thought was fishy was when his army in the natural gets scouted so he throws out a scan and sees rossi's units. Whilst it's extremely common to read a scan as 'I'm going to be attacked soon/he's thinking of attacking' and that's sensible enough, his response (particularly the fact he doesn't man the watchtower) is a bit weird. But I'm not convinced at all going off this replay.

g2 vs Rossi on antiga. His cloakshee read is actually rather sensible. He spots your 2nd gas going up with his scv and judging by when your marine pops out he can read a 12 gas 13 rax opening. Gas first, fast second gas, cloak banshee is extremely likely. Most gas first builds featuring a wall off and a marine are generally that. His units aren't optimally positioned the stop your banshee when it hits. So far it's pretty normal.

His scan at 13:30 is a little bit fishy as his the confident army movements considering he has 0 information on where any of your shit is. Not sure if enough to suggest hacking but it is a touch fishy.

agreed, the tvz's are the real evidence, but it was worth looking at all material

[inFeZa]

Let me just say one thing, And make it clear for everyone.

IF YOU CHEAT IN STARCRAFT YOU WILL GET CAUGHT.

Quick Comments

	AxSGRiM:	thx captain ;p
	syfMiley:	They gon find you!

[CHoBo(kice)]

"Losing to nobodies at LANs"

The offline events which I attended I lost to

- Yang ( this was a while ago when I was inexperienced and I played really nervously, making many many mistakes )
- Sedz ( my team captain who I tried to double port banshee to meta him and his ling got lucky scout of my scv moving to build proxy port)
- High Masters zerg don't remember name ( got lucky with changeling blocking my mech army from defining my expansion )

Yes I do play very risky and my style has always been unorthodox since I have started. So it is not unusual for me to lose in tourneys because I play oh so risky. Even in the SC2SEACL I lost 0-2 to ToT protoss with 2 failed all-ins

[CHoBo(kice)]

here you go iaguz

http://drop.sc/150202
http://drop.sc/185816
http://drop.sc/178273
http://drop.sc/185842
http://drop.sc/185830
http://drop.sc/185829
http://drop.sc/185828
http://drop.sc/185827
http://drop.sc/185826


http://drop.sc/185825
http://drop.sc/185824
http://drop.sc/185820

[TABiggun]

I would just like to quote a paragraph from the recent Spades thread because it is very relevent.

Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=342248

Before starting... for those of you who don't know, the latest maphacks on the internet block your camera on the last place visited when u are looking at some place u haven't got ANY kind of vision on, so that if people watch the replays they don't find it so evident that you are hacking. Camera block situations should be taken as moments where the camera is COMPLETELY frozen but no action is being made, they are easy to spot because most progamers are constantly moving around with the mouse, and almost never leave their camera at the exact same spot, if they do, it's just for about 1-2 seconds.


This is exactly what is happening throughout Chobo's games. It is clearly evident in the Mafia vs Chobo game on shakuras. Chobo looks into the main and then just randomly pauses for a moment with no actions at 5:30 as a baneling nest is being constructed and I also noted this was happening throughout many of the replays; a random pause with no actions. In sc2gears i looked throughout that time at his actions and there was no right click with his scvs on the mineral patches or anything, just a random look into the main and then natural.

Here are some more of my observations:

A piece of what I would consider incriminating evidence would be the way he pulls most of his scvs with his marines and gets to mafia's ramp (in mafia vs chobo on shakuras). Chobo is going for 4 rax off one base with scv pull. Then, when he reaches the ramp in his vision there are only 2 queens and 2 spine crawlers. Yet he then pulls back his entire army and scvs for no apparent reason. What I believe happened here is that when he looked at the ramp with the queens and spines, he could see with map hacks that there was a huge group of lings waiting there for him, but he didn't realise that this could not be seen in his actual vision.

Also, if you watch all of Chobo's TvZs he plays completely blind the whole game whenever the zerg goes infestors. Yet on the shakuras game when Mafia was morphing a greater spire he scans both the main and the natural. And on the Ohana game he also scans Mafia's main when he is building a spire. In all other games there were no scans and no scouting, and in all these games the zerg went infestors.

Another very strange sequence of events is from around 19:50 in the replay of chobo vs ender on metropolis. Chobo scans to remove a burrowed ling from under his CC at the 4th base. He then moves his army over some burrowed banelings towards the watch tower. Ender's army is then visible to be attacking towards chobo's 4th base so he pulls back his army over the burrowed banes. Then, his camera is looking straight at Enders army during Ender's detonation of the burrowed banelings. It appears that he did not see the detonation. Ender's army was attacking a turret as the detonation happened so there was a "we are under attack" notification and the only other things is a ping on the minimap. Chobo then runs his army over the the 4th base and chases Ender's army away and at 20:30 throws down a scan right on top of the burrowed banelings just before his army passes over it.
Also, its interesting to note he issued a move command to the tower, then ordered his army to move back to his base, then another order to move back out towards the towers before he put down his random scan. This is just a very random sequence of events that doesn't make sense to me.

In conclusion, there are things which look sus in any players games but these are few and far between. But when there are so many really strange decisions and suspect gameplay . . . it just doesn't make sense.

[CHoBo(kice)]

That spectator asgchobo in the twitch channel would have been my gf on my account. That would be a real stupid thing if I was gonna stream cheat because you could be anonymous.

Wow I knew the guys from cR were hatin' coz I didn't join their team because of commitments... but this is just wow... makes me feel disgusted...

I know tgun may not be my biggest fan but to come out and say make your own conclusions... this is well amazing, at least he knows that the 3 cc is pretty common build from me if I don't do some super cheesy build.

I did poke up the ramp, while I could win, I could also lose. My decision to pull back because I wanted to make an entertaining game, to show I can go from a all in, scv train back to my base and out macro to take the win.

I am not gonna replay to all the accusations because it would be just a waste of my time.

Quick Comments

	Champi:	how come sometimes ur english is broken and sometimes it is not? i am confuse
	iM tgun:	I will say, I have had my own preconceptions about you cheating, which is why I'm not going to chime in on these replays (as I'm going to be biased).
	TAEdgE:	what ******* cR guys? sang and dippa had 1 line rep comments?
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	lol dont put hate onto an entire team because YOU are being questioned mate
	syfMiley:	cR are mates, not food. (or haters)
	neKo:	We were hatin'? wut.
	TASlowHands:	I can count IM, xgking, SQL, TA and NV players all looking at your replays. Pretty ******* shitty defense singling out a group of people lol
	x5.Revenant:	This guy sounds so fking full of himself.
	cRSenSei:	what the heck are you on about we are hatin'?

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by asgchobo

i did poke up the ramp, while i could win, i could also lose. My decision to pull back because i wanted to make an entertaining game, to show i can go from a all in, scv train back to my base and out macro to take the win.

I am not gonna replay to all the accusations because it would be just a waste of my time.

lol what?!

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

That spectator asgchobo in the twitch channel would have been my gf on my account. That would be a real stupid thing if I was gonna stream cheat because you could be anonymous.

Wow I knew the guys from cR were hatin' coz I didn't join their team because of commitments... but this is just wow... makes me feel disgusted...

I know tgun may not be my biggest fan but to come out and say make your own conclusions... this is well amazing, at least he knows that the 3 cc is pretty common build from me if I don't do some super cheesy build.

I did poke up the ramp, while I could win, I could also lose. My decision to pull back because I wanted to make an entertaining game, to show I can go from a all in, scv train back to my base and out macro to take the win.

I am not gonna replay to all the accusations because it would be just a waste of my time.

After doing a 4 rax scv pull and getting to your opponents ramp you decide, with no information other than there are two queens and 2 spines, that instead of trying to attack and win the game at that moment which is the point of your build, to pull back and show that you can macro?

That makes absolutely no sense and is the worst possible explanation for why you would make a decision like that.

Also, I would like to hear your explanation of the things I outlined in my post such as the random look into the main and natural at 5:30 on the shakuras game vs mafia and also the playing completely blind in TvZ then in the only games where your opponent went spire tech, you decide to scan the main (ohana and shakuras vs mafia).

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

That spectator asgchobo in the twitch channel would have been my gf on my account. That would be a real stupid thing if I was gonna stream cheat because you could be anonymous.

Wow I knew the guys from cR were hatin' coz I didn't join their team because of commitments... but this is just wow... makes me feel disgusted...

I know tgun may not be my biggest fan but to come out and say make your own conclusions... this is well amazing, at least he knows that the 3 cc is pretty common build from me if I don't do some super cheesy build.

I did poke up the ramp, while I could win, I could also lose. My decision to pull back because I wanted to make an entertaining game, to show I can go from a all in, scv train back to my base and out macro to take the win.

I am not gonna replay to all the accusations because it would be just a waste of my time.

I usually wait to decide whether people are hacking or not until after they have posted their side of the story. This was worse than meanys response.. Definitely no question about it now.

EDIT: he thinks this is all an elaborate scheme by carnage to get him back for not joining their team? Gg wp carnage?

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

I usually wait to decide whether people are hacking or not until after they have posted their side of the story. This was worse than meanys response.. Definitely no question about it now.

EDIT: he thinks this is all an elaborate scheme by carnage to get him back for not joining their team? Gg wp carnage?

Dude I appreciate the fact that people make the decision after they here both sides of stories. But this could go on forever. I know I am innocent, my girlfriend knows I am innocent... This is all I need to really be at peace with myself. The fact a few others are neutral and cant come to a conclusion and I know I have support others is enough for me to say its inconclusive.

I really do not have the time to sit here and argue every single situation and position. Sorry. I am sure admins including nirvana and others will watch replays and post their views because this is a massive accusation and give their conclusions.

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Dude I appreciate the fact that people make the decision after they here both sides of stories. But this could go on forever. I know I am innocent, my girlfriend knows I am innocent... This is all I need to really be at peace with myself. The fact a few others are neutral and cant come to a conclusion and I know I have support others is enough for me to say its inconclusive.

I really do not have the time to sit here and argue every single situation and position. Sorry.

OK then. I would like to hear your account/explanation of TWO situations.

Quote 1:

"Chobo looks into the main and then just randomly pauses for a moment with no actions at 5:30 as a baneling nest is being constructed and I also noted this was happening throughout many of the replays; a random pause with no actions. In sc2gears i looked throughout that time at his actions and there was no right click with his scvs on the mineral patches or anything, just a random look into the main and then natural."

Quote 2:

"Also, if you watch all of Chobo's TvZs he plays completely blind the whole game whenever the zerg goes infestors. Yet on the shakuras game when Mafia was morphing a greater spire he scans both the main and the natural. And on the Ohana game he also scans Mafia's main when he is building a spire. In all other games there were no scans and no scouting, and in all these games the zerg went infestors."

If you can clear up these two situations then it would clear up a lot of things.

[iM MaFia]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Dude I appreciate the fact that people make the decision after they here both sides of stories. But this could go on forever. I know I am innocent, my girlfriend knows I am innocent... This is all I need to really be at peace with myself. The fact a few others are neutral and cant come to a conclusion and I know I have support others is enough for me to say its inconclusive.

I really do not have the time to sit here and argue every single situation and position. Sorry. I am sure admins including nirvana and others will watch replays and post their views because this is a massive accusation and give their conclusions.

your sc2 career is on the line here and you dont have enough time to sit here and defend it? alright then buddy

Quick Comments

	NvJazBas:
	Baldie:
	syfPhoenix:
	Zepph:
	SmirkToT:
	Zealo:	i've never got the impression that chobo cares about his 'sc2 career'

[Sent1nel]

@AsGCHoBo - Mate you really need to come out swinging if people are accusing you of cheating. You can't simply sit there and say I'm "at peace with myself". That's option number 1 in the "Deny I'm a Hacker" handbook and you really aren't doing yourself any favors. If you don't hack and you care about the SC2SEA community you need to prove yourself - no one wants to see a legitimate player get banned.

Quick Comments

	TASlowHands:
	NvJazBas:
	Zepph:
	Maynarde:
	nirvAnA:

[ROOT`iaguz]

I would also like if anyone has random ladde games against chobo provide replays. Suspicious or not, more information couldn't hurt.

[Rage]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

I would also like if anyone has random ladde games against chobo provide replays. Suspicious or not, more information couldn't hurt.

I have some from around January/February that I could provide when I get home, if this isn't resolved by then.

[iM MaFia]

(Responding to iaguz post on the ohana vs enderr game)

Like I know your a terran and its an honorable thing to stick up for another terran but Im not wrong here.

7:03 ~ HE LOOKS at bunker BEFORE the queen even attacks it. you watch the replay again son

7:42 ~ yeah okay ill give him the benefit of the doubt here, hes just checking to see what he "already knows"

11:28 ~ its the fact that everytime he touches his hellions or vikings or whatever units its for a reason either to take the watch tower or exactly kill something that's there. HE IS NEVER running them around doing nothing because why would you when there is nothing?

14:40 ~ good starsense to leave units back for counter attack when there is a blob of pink shit at his 4th, doesnt need to do it later in the game when he pushes out though cause there's nothing on the map. Im sure if u analysed more replays here you would find the same consistency in other replays.

16:00 ~ Are you trying to justify a terran not scanning or scouting an entire game basically at this level we're at, but in the exact same map vs me when i make a spire at like 9:00 he scan's right away to see it so he can make turrets. How many terrans out there can play this well without needing to scan, because its evident in all his games he never does it, unless he has to in order to not look sus for putting down his anti tech buildings.

16:54~ THERE WOULD BE NOTHING WEIRD if there happened to be no more than 40 zerglings AT THAT exact location when he selects it.

17:18~ He moves it again because he knows theres a PINK DOT THERE. No other reason to change ur medivac pathing and spam it exactly where the PINK DOT ISNT THERE.

19:38~ Yes he's already won the game and can't lose from here because he has good hacks.
Im just saying that he even knows where to send his ******* army to the point of the map right infront of his opponents shit on the minimap. Thats what you would do if you SEE the minimap. Right? You could easily just A MOVE to your opponents hatchery or ramps or whatever but he managed to EXACTLY PINPOINT just under his opponents shit

Quick Comments

	Zepph:
	AlopexToT:

[Champi]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

I did poke up the ramp, while I could win, I could also lose. My decision to pull back because I wanted to make an entertaining game, to show I can go from a all in, scv train back to my base and out macro to take the win.

To show an entertaining series and prove you can do allins and macro games, you do an allin in one game, and then the NEXT game you play macro. you do NOT allin, and then halfway through stop and go back to macro for the sole reason of playing "for the audience" not in a tournament against a player that good.

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

I am not gonna replay to all the accusations because it would be just a waste of my time.

it is most certainly NOT a waste of your time, you have been accused of being a hacker in our community. Defend yourself. If you are innocent you have nothing to lose

Quick Comments

TASlowHands:

[ROOT`iaguz]

Not replays from you. Replays from people who are definitely not you.

Quick Comments

	deL:	lol
	Zealo:	is this so he doesn't just cherry pick ones where he's not hacking? :S
	x5.Revenant:	^Yeaaaaaaaaaa