[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

Time to study.

Go forth my friend.

[zenabi]

Its not about giving a punishment, more that both of you learn what you did was really bad and stupid. Don't try and take punishment for him, because despite everything, he was involved and still should be punished in some form. Whether its as severe as your punishment in the end, that's up people like Nirvana and that to decide.

[InteGrand]

That's probably the nicest/heart-warming apology i've ever heard in my entire life. I can't help but think that's 60% ass-licking.

[nGenLight]

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Exactly !
	Trinion:
	TAavanar:	lol i like you.
	syfCabracan:	Nice.

[neKo]

Looooooooool please don't show your face again.

Quick Comments

	Zombie.:	This is not helpful, and what give you the right to decide such a thing?
	TABottles:	he doesn't but he shares my opinion

[x5.NotoriouS]

Quick Comments

x5.Phoenix:

Wipe this mess off my screen please..

[limjinsutpz]

sry anyway good night

[mGGDrGooSe]

How old are you SeoHyeon (just out of interest)? I think becoming an active member of the SEA community would be a good start to an apology. Be awesome to maybe see your stream listed here on sc2sea.com.

Quick Comments

sRDreaM:

his 24 I believe

[TABiggun]

Look guys, Seo did a bad thing for cheating, but I think we all agree that him quitting pro gaming would be a terrible thing.

I propose that perhaps he could give something back to the community such as some kind of free coaching or maybe an instructional video or something. And / or he could have practice games with people.

I'm just throwing around a few ideas but I definitely think we would all benefit the most from this experience if Seo trys to 'redeem' himself and give something back to the community instead of him being punished and thrown away.
Because of the time people have spent to solve this and also the opportunities people have been 'robbed' of it would only be fair.

You take and now you give back imo.

Quick Comments

	Frogmite:	food for thought
	Zealo:
	HuT:	excellent suggestions
	DM.MCZ.Polaris:

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Look guys, Seo did a bad thing for cheating, but I think we all agree that him quitting pro gaming would be a terrible thing.

I propose that perhaps he could give something back to the community such as some kind of free coaching or maybe an instructional video or something. And / or he could have practice games with people.

I'm just throwing around a few ideas but I definitely think we would all benefit the most from this experience if Seo trys to 'redeem' himself and give something back to the community instead of him being punished and thrown away.
Because of the time people have spent to solve this and also the opportunities people have been 'robbed' of it would only be fair.

You take and now you give back imo.

We already have plenty of 'his' replays to learn from



But really, good idea.. welcome him in to the community and he can give back to us..

Quick Comments

Rage:

oh you!

[Nemo]

Why close all those threads before everyone can comment ? I'm only finishing my day work and I can only read all this stuff and post now.

No wonder I found him very good in the replay analysis. lol In fact I never thought of watching for any smurfing during those analysis because it was not what I was asked. Props to Rossi, Nirvana, Mafia and all those implied to have found this.

In fact in one of those 5 games I watched, he talked once in quite broken English (I mean, even worst than mine ) to Strafe asking a question : http://fr.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/320663846 (highlight)
"Sorry my eng is bad
Japan
Team Monkey
N°3
good game"

I thought it was weird but thought it might be some private joke or troll between Chobo and Strafe. Don't know all the stories between players. I'm surprised no one have raised that. Maybe they had the same thought it was just a troll. But now, knowing the truth, it takes a whole different meaning.

Curious that someone you have the truth under your nose and you don't see it. Life keep forcing us to humility I guess.

[Zealo]

two questions for seohyeon/kice:

how long has seohyeon been smurfing as chobo, and when exactly?

+ Show +

i'm assuming the answer is most/all ladder games, and most/all of the (very few) online tournament games played on chobo's SEA and NA accounts.

what is the motivation for doing this for both players?

+ Show +

money? a korean getting easy prizes from SEA only tournaments? as his clan mate, i've noticed for a long time that kice barely ever enters any tournaments (offline or online) until about a month ago. unless i'm mistaken, the latest MC is the first prize 'chobo' has 'won'. playing thousands of ladder games over 6months+ (to make that seem slightly more legit?) hardly seems worth it...

also, why use kice's account and risk his reputation rather than a smurf account or someone who isn't serious about the game? (still risks seohyeon's reputation/career, but you're doing that anyway). weren't the SEASL qualifiers 'chobo' made the semi finals in (lost to axslav and someone?) open to non SEA residents anyway? (IE, axslav and QXC)

did he want to improve his cred so he could make his fortune from coaching? seohyeon just levelling his account for him for fun/to be nice? i don't know how much money he made from that, i know when i've referred people looking for coaching to kice a couple of times he's said he's too busy with work/uni to take on a new student :S

or was it mostly just an ego / troll thing?

one question for several people on this thread:

why are you being so forgiving of seohyeon (but so harsh on chobo)?

+ Show +

essentially, their crimes are:
seohyeon - playing in tournament(s) he was not elligable for, using the account of someone who was
kice - letting someone else use his account to play in tournament(s).
(i'm assuming no one is calling for punishment on ladder smurfing)

if anything, i'd say seohyeon's crime greater, but that is purely my opinion.

(if i enter the next BSG using my friend's account and get caught, i'd sure as **** expect a more severe punishment than my friend)

neither of them admitted to it until some pretty damn convincing proof showed up, also neither of them denied it after they saw the convincing evidence.

isn't this exactly the same situation as when major smurfed into an SEA only tournament? were people really this forgiving of him?

ending his career would be too extreme in my opinion (but note that's the level of offence he thought this was), but this is pretty ******* insulting towards the SEA community. "banned from future SEA tournaments" isn't really a punishment if he was only going to enter them on chobo's account anyway. for tgun to suggest that notifying his team would be going too far baffles me.

i don't know what sort of punishments are appropriate or even possible for starcraft players who do things like this (in other sports they'd be suspended from playing for x amount of time i guess?), but there's no ******* way they should not have an example made of them

offering free coaching would at least give something back to the community they've damaged (both of them) i guess :/

I thought it was weird but thought it might be some private joke or troll between Chobo and Strafe. Don't know all the stories between players. I'm surprised no one have raised that. Maybe they had the same thought it was just a troll. But now, knowing the truth, it takes a whole different meaning.

kice used to say he was on team monkey from japan (and other things) in games to troll people quite often. i never considered it was to cover for the poor english of someone smurfing on his account.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

Whats is AsG's response to the issue?.. CHobo out of the clan?

[dippa]

I don't even think a ban on SC2SEA tournaments is the best option, given that it's obvious hyun was a bit clueless about the whole affair.

Should get Jaz or someone with conversational Korean to put together like a training video, have a korean professional walk through a build for everyone and upload it solely for SC2SEA. (Then link on reddit for maximum karma.)

Of course, banning him's easier, but yeah, the intent on hyun's part was not malicious whatsoever, and the punishment should reflect that.

[Zealo]

Originally Posted by dippa

Of course, banning him's easier, but yeah, the intent on hyun's part was not malicious whatsoever, and the punishment should reflect that.

not malicious? he broke the rules in an attempt to win prize money he was not entitled to, then tried to cover it up when nirvana got suspicious and did his test thing.

poor english doesn't make that ok.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[Sent1nel]

Every single gamer on the planet knows what smurfing is, knows it's against the rules and knows it's a form of cheating. The more damning piece to the puzzle is that once the inquiry begun Seo himself actively colluded in order to prevent the truth from coming out. Irrespective of their understanding of the consequences both Chobo and Seo knew full well what they were doing was wrong.

I don't think there is any question that if key members of the SEA community had not taken time out to uncover the truth to this - neither Chobo or Seo would have ever openly admitted to their wrong doings. Chobo would have continued to deny many hard working legitimate players from receiving their just desserts, all whilst potentially causing irreparable damage to the SEA scene as a whole.

Having said that Seo should definitely keep playing. He needs to take this as a lesson learned the hard way. As far as consequences for him I'll leave that up to the people here at SEA to decide however as Dippa has mentioned, some "community service" might be a good way for him to make amends.

For me Chobo needs to have the book thrown at him. He instigated the mess we are in now and has caused harm to the image of an International player as a result. Due to his actions he clearly has a flagrant disregard for the SEA community. That might mean a complete ban on LAN events as well. You cannot simply toy with and potentially cause irreparable harm to something so many people here take seriously.

Quick Comments

	Peleus:
	inFeZa:	hey i just met you, and you just posted, and its a good one, up rep maybe?

[yongming]

Originally Posted by dippa

I don't even think a ban on SC2SEA tournaments is the best option, given that it's obvious hyun was a bit clueless about the whole affair.

Should get Jaz or someone with conversational Korean to put together like a training video, have a korean professional walk through a build for everyone and upload it solely for SC2SEA. (Then link on reddit for maximum karma.)

Of course, banning him's easier, but yeah, the intent on hyun's part was not malicious whatsoever, and the punishment should reflect that.

he has a sea account. if he had joined using his own account under the pretext that he doesnt know the rules, it is forgiveable. but he took the trouble to participate in a tournament that is not open to him, under another person's account. moreover he is involved with chobo in the cover up (the skype and game involving nirvana and rossi) in an attempt to obstruct investigation.

[Strafe]

I'm sorry, but he cheated. His English might not be as good as some of the people from New Zealand, but even in Korea playing a tournament that has prize money under someone else's name is blatant cheating. So he knew what he was doing was wrong and there should be repercussions. That they don't need to be as severe as Chobo's is quite obvious, but he can't walk away scotch free.

I think a ban on Sea tournaments for a while and informing his team of what he did are in order. Any more is debatable.

Quick Comments

	iM MaFia:	the sheep man
	nirvAnA:
	Nemo:	Agreed 100%. He knew perfectly well he was cheating.
	NvJazBas:	**** off. but your right.

[TheGentleman]

Judgement has been passed, case closed.

Link to the punishment and incident summary: here.

[syfChadMann]

Well I think the big issue with CHobo is how much he lied - he was a SC2SEA TGM Coach! because of his ladder history obtained by other people smurfing. He perpetuated this for a long time, and used it to better his own ego and reputation. He asked hyun to keep up the lie and to play for him in the tournament.. Hyun didn't realise what he was doing - I don't think he realised the severity of the situation. CHobo gloated on the fourms about 'his' ability and charged people for coaching.

If anything, chobo has lied, cheated and deceived, whereas Hyun was the enabler who cheated. But when asked, never lied. CHobo is the cause of the issue and no doubt the instigator of Hyun smurfing on his accoun (I doubt Hyun asked him to use his account, but CHoBo probably offered)...

anyway - there is alot to write about this, but it is so late.. I'll add to it tomorrow.

[PiG]

Anyone standing up for seohyeon I ask you remember that there is no way anyone could do this without realising it's very wrong. I don't care how apologetic he is once caught.

He didn't own up straight away because him and chobo kept on decieving nirvana by getting him to continue impersonating chobo and and answering perrsonal questions to trick nirvana and this community.

Sure he was quicker to own up then chobo once caught but that doesn't make him a saint.

Also I am still investigating replays for evidence of production tab and streamcheating because of his lucky interceptions and troop movements that made little sense on ohana vs ender, and the lack of scans except when his opponent goes mutalisks. I'm not saying he cheated but I'm saying the investigation is not over and he needs to be shamed for his actions. It doesn't need to end his career but it MUST be known to his team amongst others. Remember byun and coca not playing GSL for months?

Also what progaming career who does he play for?

edit: he has some small sponsorship. not really a career

Quick Comments

Peleus:

Agreed