[nirvAnA]

Yes, unstable did talk to me, I told him all weekends were probably going to busy till july. But to be fair FXO didn't have much flexibility with their dates to play around with so a clash with one of the tournaments on the weekends was inevitable and i guess he chose the grayed out one because he didn't know how massive in prizes it was going to be?

I'm just glad that dox who had the flexibility to work with managed to move dates.

edit: I was also unaware of the magnitude of the grayed out event. had I known it was so massive it would have rang a bell and i would have told unstable. i basically told him what i knew, the next 3 weekends were acl / gigabyte qualifiers, and there was eve cup #2 and masters cup to look out for as well.

Quick Comments

Dox:

read his post? he clearly said he didn't know the spreadsheet existed

[BaKaiNu]

I'm going to step in now, and say: MOVE IT TO PMs!

Damage is already done, and rectified.

Now settle your differences elsewhere.

Quick Comments

	iM tgun:	But.. but... I want entertainment
	NOM:	Your new name is Atamagaii inu. This post contains no baka.
	inFeZa:	just ******* BAN THEM ALL ^_^
	nirvAnA:
	Mayo:
	SLCN.NXZ:	Smart dog, not stupid!
	ROOTPetraeus:	bakaaaaaaaa

[Peleus]

I agree with Baka, I don't like it when mummy and daddy fight.

Quick Comments

	NOM:	It's more of a 3-way.
	inFeZa:	hawt

[Pandan]

So that's now 2 events (in a row) that Nirvana had prior knowledge of both and somehow 'forgot' or it was 'too hard' to avoid a conflict.

Maybe you should sub-contract out your managerial skills to someone with some ability to talk with other people, or hell, maybe even someone competence?

Quick Comments

	Snx.FigJig:	no
	ROOTPetraeus:	go die
	Bash:	doesnt work like that
	TheGentleman:	You have been warned for this post, that's good enough for me. @IrisPetraeus: idc how much you disagree with a post there's nothing funny about the sentiment "go die".
	inFeZa:	this does not deserve a warning.
	dee:	you need serious help

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Pandan

So that's now 2 events (in a row) that Nirvana had prior knowledge of both and somehow 'forgot' or it was 'too hard' to avoid a conflict.

Maybe you should sub-contract out your managerial skills to someone with some ability to talk with other people, or hell, maybe even some competence?

Calm the **** down kid. You're expecting him to be able to keep track of every event running the SEA scene without fail? Are you kidding me? **** off.

Quick Comments

	Pandan:	I do not, but I expect him to do better when he knows of conflicts
	TAEdgE:	flipped coin]

[x5_Potter]

Nirv runs a SEA community site, not the entire server.

Quick Comments

	Frogmite:	yeap
	nirvAnA:	exactly lol
	Another:

[Pandan]

He even admits to having prior knowledge both times.

He knows both sides of the fence, and doesn't direct those two sides to discuss - he just personally decides "its too hard" and gives up.

That is fucked, imo

EDIT: What I'm really saying - is that after the GIGABYTE conflict, which I can believe was an honest mistake, you would think efforts would be put in place to prevent it from happening again; but that's not the case. Literally the exact same thing happened again, with Nirvana telling the other person to reschedule. He could have just opened communications between both event organisers both times - didn't event try on either until after announcements were made...

I don't care how nice a guy Nirvana is (or whatever bandwagon you want to get on), both of these conflicts could have been prevented, or AT LEAST COMMUNICATED by Nirvana to both parties and resolved the issue before it became one. He CHOSE not to do anything and then told the party he didn't communicate to reschedule on both occasions.

That, and ONLY THAT, is why I believe he either doesn't care, or is incompetent.


EDIT2: Rest assured if Vanzr or Dox did this, I would give them the same amount of criticism. I'm sure they can both vouch on the occasions that I've told them before...

Quick Comments

	FaDeBadger:	**** off
	Snx.FigJig:	go away
	Another:	dude.
	ToRVenom:	silly
	dee:	go back to CS where you belong

[Pandan]

[3:22 PM] TAminimat:
i dont really see the problem with events clashing..
[3:22 PM] TAminimat:
just causes the organisers to be more competitive
[3:22 PM] deneb has just replied to the thread Masters Cup Sun 3rd June! $10 prize just for joining
[3:22 PM] Pandan:
If it can 100% be avoided, then I just see it as harming the scene
[3:22 PM] Pandan:
big pet peeve of mine
[3:23 PM] UHF:
its more of an issue here than most other places as our scene is smaller
[3:23 PM] Pandan:
^
[3:23 PM] UHF:
although, it just means lesser names have a better chance of winning
[3:23 PM] UHF:
which isn't really a problem
[3:23 PM] yaaaang:
in a purely competitive environment that makes sense
[3:24 PM] Pandan:
no the problem is 2 events with 40 people > 1 event with 100?
[3:24 PM] Pandan:
When they are online, i think thats a problem
[3:24 PM] Pandan:
what sponsor is going to give decent money to 40 people
[3:24 PM] TAminimat:
how many weekends do you think are in every month tho
[3:24 PM] Pandan:
when he can give the same amount to 100 and get wider reach?
[3:25 PM] Pandan:
You can choose to clash with so many things
[3:25 PM] Pandan:
choosing to clash with the biggest one twice in a row
[3:25 PM] Pandan:
is just retarded
[3:25 PM] Pandan:
the GIGABYTE thing could have had SHITLOADS of people attend
[3:25 PM] SC2SEA StreamBot:
TragicHero is online! Watch here.
[3:25 PM] TAminimat:
so your saying clash with anyone just not the events im affiliated with
[3:25 PM] Pandan:
now it will get considerably less because people MUST attend ACL for wcs
[3:25 PM] Pandan:
I'm not affiliated with ACL, fyi
[3:26 PM] coolbeans has just replied to the thread Whats Your Gaming Gear?
[3:26 PM] Pandan:
my point is, both ACL and GIGABYTE could have BOTH had much higher attendance, but now both are vultured
[3:26 PM] yaaaang:
oh pandan
[3:26 PM] yaaaang:
you so crazy
[3:26 PM] Pandan:
and will receive a lower ROI for sponsors
[3:26 PM] TAminimat:
its a ******* good thing lol
[3:27 PM] Pandan:
how is sponsors wanting to spend less money a good thing?
[3:27 PM] yaaaang:
how is it a good thing that two big events are held on the same weekend
[3:27 PM] Pandan:
its vulturing the scene
[3:27 PM] TAminimat:
it will make both parties get more competitive?
[3:27 PM] Pandan:
if those events were on back to back events, they would have way higher attendance and sponsors would LOVE it
[3:27 PM] cR.ChadMann:
yeah minimat - Pandan is right.. shhh.
[3:27 PM] Pandan:
there is no 'competitive' they dont compete
[3:27 PM] Pandan:
if you want to go to wcs you go to ACL
[3:28 PM] Pandan:
end of story
[3:28 PM] Pandan:
therefore less go to GIGABYTE
[3:28 PM] Pandan:
thats BADDDD

From chatbox


EDIT: @Bash rep: I have a bad habit of saying some dick-ish things whilst on the route of making my point. I still strongly believe in my point, but perhaps I shouldn't have jumped @ Nirvana so hastily

Quick Comments

	Snx.FigJig:	cool story
	Bash:	i dont agree with some of what you say, but that conversation makes perfect sense.
	Bloodmyst:	Go back to CS :)
	TAEdgE:	This site has ******* awful rep comments

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Pandan

From chatbox


EDIT: @Bash rep: I have a bad habit of saying some dick-ish things whilst on the route of making my point. I still strongly believe in my point, but perhaps I shouldn't have jumped @ Nirvana so hastily

This quote is about as relevant as me calling your skill in SC2 in question.

Originally Posted by Pandan

He even admits to having prior knowledge both times.

He knows both sides of the fence, and doesn't direct those two sides to discuss - he just personally decides "its too hard" and gives up.

That is fucked, imo

EDIT: What I'm really saying - is that after the GIGABYTE conflict, which I can believe was an honest mistake, you would think efforts would be put in place to prevent it from happening again; but that's not the case. Literally the exact same thing happened again, with Nirvana telling the other person to reschedule. He could have just opened communications between both event organisers both times - didn't event try on either until after announcements were made...

I don't care how nice a guy Nirvana is (or whatever bandwagon you want to get on), both of these conflicts could have been prevented, or AT LEAST COMMUNICATED by Nirvana to both parties and resolved the issue before it became one. He CHOSE not to do anything and then told the party he didn't communicate to reschedule on both occasions.

That, and ONLY THAT, is why I believe he either doesn't care, or is incompetent.


EDIT2: Rest assured if Vanzr or Dox did this, I would give them the same amount of criticism. I'm sure they can both vouch on the occasions that I've told them before...

Again, you're thinking that Nirvana runs every tournament. This is either just extremely misguided or your mentally challenged. You're lashing out at a person who is the owner of a community site -- not talking to the guy who is running the ******* tournament. Nirvana isn't the guy that every tournament organizer goes to pre-tournament and says "Yes you can run this at x date, no you can't, etc..". It's not his fault.

The sad thing is I agree that having both tournaments is bad, but deadset mate, you're so far off base with your comments it's not funny.

[Pandan]

Considering he was approached and did discuss prior to the events being announced (his words), yes I do believe he is in a position of power and responsibility, and he didn't act accordingly.

If Dox was told about a huge competition that had $50k first place and it was on the WCS finals date, and didn't either a) attempt to convince them to reschedule or b) advise those running the WCS - I would see him in fault in THE EXACT SAME WAY.

If Nirvana misspoke when he said he discussed with both of these event organisers prior to their announcements, then it wouldn't be a big deal - but he has personally said he spoke with both of these last two conflicting event organisers and the person(s) who needed to know (Dox, ACL) was left out of the loop both times.

I feel that someone in a leadership role in the community has a responsibility to prevent this from happening, then they can. If they don't have time - all they need to do is inform or even redirect the query to someone else. Simply guessing is not good enough (imo)

This quote is about as relevant as me calling your skill in SC2 in question

As much as it is in me calling your skill in any other non-SC2 game in question? Silly insult there...
My quote is entirely relevant as it demonstrates the consequences of making these mistakes.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Pandan

Considering he was approached and did discuss prior to the events being announced (his words), yes I do believe he is in a position of power and responsibility, and he didn't act accordingly.

If Dox was told about a huge competition that had $50k first place and it was on the WCS finals date, and didn't either a) attempt to convince them to reschedule or b) advise those running the WCS - I would see him in fault in THE EXACT SAME WAY.

If Nirvana misspoke when he said he discussed with both of these event organisers prior to their announcements, then it wouldn't be a big deal - but he has personally said he spoke with both of these last two conflicting event organisers and the person(s) who needed to know (Dox, ACL) was left out of the loop both times.

I feel that someone in a leadership role in the community has a responsibility to prevent this from happening, then they can. If they don't have time - all they need to do is inform or even redirect the query to someone else. Simply guessing is not good enough (imo)

He can be approached / discuss it all he wants. Again, it isn't Nirvanas fault. You seem to not be able to comprehend this -- he runs a community site, aimed at bringing people together in the SEA scene for SC2 (and to a lesser extent other games), as well as a website where people can advertise tournaments, etc.

He isn't the one responsible for when tournaments plan their dates. He isn't the one who is a walking encyclopedia of when tournaments are running, nor does he have a schedule of when each tournament runs. With the amount of tournaments that run weekly on this website, are you really going to ******* spaz (at him, no less!) about two tournaments overlapping (which, as they are online, can easily be reschuled)?

If you want there to be an encyclopedia of all tournaments running, feel free to take initiative and create a calendar with prospective dates, or try to act as a go-between for tournament organizers and work out possible scheduling conflicts. That isn't Nirvanas job. If Dox and Unstable had said they both talked to me about their events and I hadn't said "HOLD THE ******* PHONE, THIS WILL CONFLICT!" would it be my fault that their scheduling overlapped?

No. It ******* wouldn't.

It's the organizers "fault" -- and I use the term without implications. In a community as small as ours, predicting an overlap in scheduling is a very hard thing to do. You can usually presume that a date will be open and be correct.

However, I'm going off on a bit of a tangent. My main point is that you're right to be angry about tournaments overlapping. However, you're lashing out at the wrong guy by a mile.

Originally Posted by Pandan

As much as it is in me calling your skill in any other non-SC2 game in question? Silly insult there...
My quote is entirely relevant as it demonstrates the consequences of making these mistakes.

No, your quote was completely irrelevant. Your quote was you complaining (to no-one, really..) that two tournaments are on at the same date, again, which Nirvana had nothing to do with. Yet you complain here, to the chatbox, as opposed to messaging the people in charge. Why not message the people responsible? The more people that do this, the more that they will take notice.

The big difference is that these two tournaments are live events -- LANs -- which will have booked the place that the event isrunning. Huge ******* difference than two online events.

Quick Comments

	asdfSchnitzel:
	nirvAnA:
	PiG:	Tgun I love your lack of bias and honest opinions always great posts
	dee:

[TheGentleman]

Originally Posted by Pandan

Likes:

*nRvPickleWeasel: *
no

*IrisPetraeus: *
go die

*Bash: *
doesnt work like that

*TheGentleman: *
You have been warned for this post, that's good enough for me. @IrisPetraeus: idc how much you disagree with a post ther...

... their post, there's nothing funny about the sentiment "go die".

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	who said it was funny
	BaKaiNu:	Drop it Pet.
	UncleTom:	Give him a chance
	xGKingdelete:
	ToRSpookToR:	pet shut the **** up
	neKo:	Pet is still wearing diapers.

[Pandan]

I'm not missing the point at all.

If Dox came to me and told me about his event, then FXO came to me with theirs, and I didn't bring up to one or both of them that the conflict existed - I WOULD BE FULLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONFLICT.

If you disagree, you are welcome to - but when you have knowledge and choose not to act; you are in the wrong.

Quick Comments

ProAnnn:

Dont make sense

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Pandan

I'm not missing the point at all.

If Dox came to me and told me about his event, then FXO came to me with theirs, and I didn't bring up to one or both of them that the conflict existed - I WOULD BE FULLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONFLICT.

If you disagree, you are welcome to - but when you have knowledge and choose not to act; you are in the wrong.

No, you're not responsible for the conflict. Holy shit.

What you just said is as if you had just had someone come to you -- and tell you they were going to bash someone.

Then they did it.

And you got in trouble for it, because you didn't go to the other person, or appropriate people, and warn them.

Are you getting this?

Tournament organizers all have each-others contacts. It's not as if it's hard to reach Dox -- or Unstable -- or any other organizer. Expecting them to hear information through a grapevine is deadset ridiculous.

Quick Comments

NOM:

This should be a private post.

[NOM]

WAYY TO MUCH BM HERE
let me fix it...

Quick Comments

	asdfSchnitzel:	:D
	syfMiley:
	xGKingdelete:	its sad that so many threads just disintegrate into this
	Cyanide:	that actually kinda freaks me out
	iM tgun:	I don't like things with long necks.
	LennX:	Om nom nom nom. Fresh popcorn is nice.
	inFeZa:	wtf is that thing
	neKo:	Quality post
	TAEdarus:	Countering silly neko -rep
	iVnStinger:	You and I are on the same page delete.
	dee:
	eCKo`Switch:	^.^ this makes me feel better about this thread
	dippa:	that mouth just made me smile

[BaKaiNu]

Originally Posted by NOM

WAYY TO MUCH BM HERE
let me fix it...

No, let me fix it.

The summary,

-nirvAnA is not responsible for organising tournaments for SEA scene.

-Use the "Keep Track of Events" posted by Dox (http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=4867) to plan your event ahead of time from now on.

-Communicate with OTHER organizers as well.

As I had summarize the main points of the argument. Now stop this stupid pointless argument. If you really want to continue, do it in PMs. I will definitely infract if this continues onwards from my post.

Regards,
BakaInu

Quick Comments

	TheGentleman:
	NOM:	Like a boss.
	ToRVenom:	This right here..........baller! that is all
	dee:

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by BaKaiNu

No, let me fix it.

The summary,

-nirvAnA is not responsible for organising tournaments for SEA scene.

-Use the "Keep Track of Events" posted by Dox (http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=4867) to plan your event ahead of time from now on.

-Communicate with OTHER organizers as well.

As I had summarize the main points of the argument. Now stop this stupid pointless argument. If you really want to continue, do it in PMs. I will definitely infract if this continues onwards from my post.

Regards,
BakaInu

Just quoting because this is pretty much exactly what I was saying..

Quick Comments

	NOM:	Didn't see any bad language in Baka's post.
	Bloodmyst:	^^ it's just added for effect to try and get it through someones head...

[Pandan]

Wait, so you're saying that if you came up to me at LAN and said you were going to bash mOOnGLaDe to a pulp so that you'd win - and I didn't tell him or anyone else - that I'd be 100% clear and not guilty?

I can see what you're trying to say, but that's a god awful metaphor to be using man.

EDIT: The other reason I say it's someone like this persons responsibility, is that perhaps people might speak to Nirvana because they didn't want to speak with Dox. Would if Nirvana doesn't like Dox? What if FXO doesn't like XYZ person. Nirvana has the information (in this example) and thus should share it, when he knows it will 100% cause a conflict.

It is entirely possible that even with Nirvana sharing the information; that the conflict will remain - but giving up immediately and not even trying to resolve it, isn't the right thing to do.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Pandan

Wait, so you're saying that if you came up to me at LAN and said you were going to bash mOOnGLaDe to a pulp so that you'd win - and I didn't tell him or anyone else - that I'd be 100% clear and not guilty?

I can see what you're trying to say, but that's a god awful metaphor to be using man.

No, you're taking it to an extreme in an attempt to dodge it.

Let's say you're a friend of mine, and I said that tomorrow at school I was going to hit (y).

You didn't contact (y), for whatever reason -- you forgot, didn't expect it to be true, expected him to know via other means.

(y) then gets hit.

Who would (y) be angry at? The wanker that hit him, or you?

The way you're reacting, he'd be angrier at you than the person that hit him.

What I'm saying is, you're lashing out at a person who has nothing to do with the tournaments other than talking to the two organizers because he's friends with them, blaming it on him. I don't know how much simpler I can put it, if you don't get it now, you never bloody will.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	can (y) be minimat
	ProAnnn:	Makes alot sense
	Pandan:	IF Line 3 is true, tgun wins. IF line 4 false, pandan wins.
	nirvAnA:

[deL]

I agree with pandan in that avoiding clashes is something that should be simple but is often overlooked and overcomplicated. Unstable I think was in the right to organise an FXO event, which focusses on international and Korean scenes and is generous to dip it's toe in SEA. They specifically aim some SEA material at Malaysia anyway so clashing with Australian events doesn't always hurt the intents. Dox was a little bit silly but I think it's his relexive response now seeing how many people look for a chance to bring down something he obviously puts a lot of thought and effort in to.

At the end of the day a clash isn't worth all this argument lol. It's short notice for all sides involved so just deal with it as best you can and set up a system for the future instead of getting mad over something that could have been easily resolved if ANYONE made a real attempt to. Obviously no one did and a bunch of people who did nothing about it are pointing fingers at each other.