[DemiseCloudy]

Hey hey

My "trainee" =D doesnt have an account on SEA so he asked me to ask everyone what is a good tvt build.
Becasue most of his games are tvt and stuggles and struggles in late game aswell. Any suggestions on a good tvt build

Thanks

DemiseGaming

DemiseCloudy

[SanG]

I like marines a lot. Marines counter everything

Quick Comments

	mGGAequitas:	marines are good, if you are building marines and you lose; you need to work on your micro
	jtxgaming:	but if marines counter everything, what happens if the other player builds marines !

[DemiseCloudy]

Originally Posted by NaZSang

I like marines a lot

LOL nothing better then OP marines xD

[syfCabracan]

Are you asking for opening builds, late game advice for both? Also what level of player is he, I personally love quick expanding builds but for most new players I would go for some kind of 1/1/1 attack with expansion behind.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by NaZSang

I like marines a lot. Marines counter everything

He's not kidding.

[syfCabracan]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

He's not kidding.

The counter to any unit is the marine. The counter to any building is a stimmed marine.

[ChowMuddha]

1/1/1 cloak banshee opening works quite well, if they are not doing the same opening. But personally I like to 1 rax fe

[DemiseCloudy]

Originally Posted by Cabracan

Are you asking for opening builds, late game advice for both? Also what level of player is he, I personally love quick expanding builds but for most new players I would go for some kind of 1/1/1 attack with expansion behind.

He is a top 8 bronze player and he knows the 111 build but he says it doenst work against terran. i Guess just full game build if that makes sesne xD

[DemiseCloudy]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

He's not kidding.

haha yeh i realised xD

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by DemiseCloudy

He is a top 8 bronze player and he knows the 111 build but he says it doenst work against terran. i Guess just full game build if that makes sesne xD

1/1/1 in TvT is a different beast to 1/1/1 in TvP. You can still do some early banshee harass before your timing comes, and in fact, 1 banshee is really good with the push (if you have air control, one banshee can go to town on defensive tanks), but you need to be producing vikings for air control to get the full range of your sieged tanks.

[DemiseCloudy]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

1/1/1 in TvT is a different beast to 1/1/1 in TvP. You can still do some early banshee harass before your timing comes, and in fact, 1 banshee is really good with the push (if you have air control, one banshee can go to town on defensive tanks), but you need to be producing vikings for air control to get the full range of your sieged tanks.

Ohk fair enough but say if the oppenet was to do a tank marine build what should he do to counter that if that makes any sense

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by DemiseCloudy

Ohk fair enough but say if the oppenet was to do a tank marine build what should he do to counter that if that makes any sense

You don't just 'counter' unit comps in TvT. You need to outmaneuver and out-position your opponent.

I think marine-tank builds are the easiest to get your head around. and to play in general.

You Tube

You Tube

Just go watch that video and try and copy what demuslim does. It's a fairly safe, very solid way to play the matchup. He explains why he builds stuff in the order he does, and it all really makes a lot of sense.

But don't go over thinking and trying to do different things to 'counter' your opponent every game when your mechanics just aren't up to being able to macro effectively on the fly like that... This is one of the big mistakes I still always make... My opponent does crazy shit and I try to change my build to 'counter' them because i get thrown off, and wonder why i lost when im floating 3k minerals at 10 minutes.

[SayfT]

I like mech in TvT. You can try a cloak banshee build into mech transition or something similar to the following build (not doing any pressure though):

GASLESS 1rax expand
Cut scv production once your CC is up, make 2 refineries ASAP!

If you scout your opponent with a techlab on his rax then he could be going for reaper expand, marauder play, reaper/helion/medivac drop. To have a good chance of surviving this, plop a bunker at your choke for expansion and have some extra marines inside your base on the ledge for potential reaper(s), HAVE ONE SCV at watch tower or possible path of maruaders/reapers so you can react accordingly (pull marines from your base to the bunker etc...)

As soon as you get 100 gas put a factory down.

CC finishes, get 3rd refinery (that will allow you to produce a tank,2 vikings and add more production buildings/ups). Research siege mode ASAP! (This is very impotant! if you are slow on your factory timing or siege mode research you may lose to a better executed 1 base tank push).

Start starport, have either rax making a reactor or wait for starport to finish and add a reactor.

Around 6.20-6.30 put an engineering bay down (if you seen gas BEFORE rax from opponent it could be fast banshee, earlier engi bay is advised here).

Add 2nd reactored factory and research blueflame upgrade, start making helions.

Add 2nd CC, take 4th gas, add 2 more factories (all tech labs).

Your goal here is to have ~5 factories, 3rd base (6 gasses!), 3-4 starports (2 tech labs for raven/banshee production) if opponent is going mech to focus on air weapon/armor upgrades over ground first. If opponent goes for bio/tank, bio play then focus on vehicle attack, air attack.

Dont unsiege all your tanks at once, use sensor towers and use helions to soak up damage while your tanks shell away. If your opponent doesn't have thors but has a bunch of tanks or goes for mech with no thors then use your superior air dominance to snipe his tanks with banshees and force an unsiege.

Hope some of this was usefull and remember to be patient with your mech play, rushing in can be very very very bad sometimes!!!


ALSO!!! Try not to go for Cattle Bruisers, you can use a bunch of vikigs to kite em and focus your thors on his flock of vikings, his vikings get aoe'd, scoot and shoot, kill vikings, proceed to nomnomnom on Cattle Bruisers huehuehue

EDIT: you WILL lose alot with this build at the start but if you are patient you may find this style of play to be very fun and rewarding.

[ROOT`iaguz]

He's in bronze, his problems are purely about execution. At this level all he needs to do is follow a simple build order (pick ANY of them it doesn't matter) and figure out how to do it for teh first 5-10 mins of play then learn how to do it properly, not missing any scvs or buildings or w/e.

Whatever it is doesn't matter. At bronze people are extremely bad and there's no room for good strategic play when mechanics and fundamentals are the core issue.

[SayfT]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

He's in bronze, his problems are purely about execution. At this level all he needs to do is follow a simple build order (pick ANY of them it doesn't matter) and figure out how to do it for teh first 5-10 mins of play then learn how to do it properly, not missing any scvs or buildings or w/e.

Whatever it is doesn't matter. At bronze people are extremely bad and there's no room for good strategic play when mechanics and fundamentals are the core issue.

That is true, I only read that he bronze after posting the advice :S feel like a nubcake now huehuehue

[syfCabracan]

I would personally suggest not picking cloaked banshee. I don't think teaching people to do only builds like that is the best way for them to learn. It's a good way for them to win, but not a good way to learn.

[AvMyuu]

i reckon people in lower leagues should just start 1 rax fe into 3 rax into starport with factory starting reactor and then just start siege tanks after reactor switch :P and then build 3rd build more rines and go rine tank till lategame wehre you can probably go bc/viking/raven

[ROOT`iaguz]

shouldn't that be xGKingMyuu?

[syfMiley]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

shouldn't that be xGKingMyuu?

Shouldn't all terrans go 3port?

[jtxgaming]

Originally Posted by TAMiLes

Shouldn't all terrans go 3port?

Standard terran build. 3port into marines.