[CyniX]

Not sure if this has been brung up before but I know as a Zerg player this map is quite frustrating because in ZvZ a lot of the time you need to drone scout to see if there's an expo by 4:00~ and lose a bit of economy there if your first OV didn't go in the right direction and getting an early third against Protoss is harder than most maps aswell because it's so far away from your base. Similar story in ZvT. I hear a lot of Protoss complain about Tal'darim aswell for PvP because of the lack of ramp. I'm only in masters and I haven't had too much experience on this map, but it just feels like a really unpopular one.

I mean it can stay in the map pool because you can veto it if you don't want to play it in 2nd or 3rd game, but I think having it as a starting map you must play in the first round sucks. What you guys think?

[dippa]

how about remove TDA altogether?

Quick Comments

	PiG:	i like this idea!
	asdfSchnitzel:	Or at least add a bloody ramp >.>
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	yes :D
	eCKo`Switch:

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by dippa

how about remove TDA altogether?

This. I honestly ask myself every match, is antiga in it? Veto. Is tal in it? Veto.

Vice versa for ZvZ. It's a trash map.

[Daboo]

It's worse for protoss, it's the most 4 gate friendly map there is. So I dont know if forcing it as first play is a good idea.

Quick Comments

mGGAequitas:

my favourite pvp map for this reason! my 4gate is near perfect :p

[Loach]

i dont mind antiga too much - TDA is a joke though. to the point where i veto it on ladder.. at least i can take a comfortable 3rd (most of the time) on antiga

[ROOT`iaguz]

TDA can go **** itself, just remove it altogether.

Quick Comments

	Loach:
	sRDreaM:
	Kepler:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:
	eCKo`Switch:

[TAEdgE]

TDA was really the first map? lol

[Xenomorph]

They should remove antiga and TDA, both need a rest anyway (hopefully a permanent rest).

[Dumbledore]

Originally Posted by EdgE

TDA was really the first map? lol

Don't think this guy even read the thread...

Quick Comments

	TASlowHands:	cam doesnt read threads, threads read cam
	TAEdgE:	take off the ledore in your name

[TASlowHands]

Heh, I remember when it was like the best map in the pool because it was modeled after a GSL map and was big. How far we've come. I reckon leave it in the pool, but dont start on it.

[TAEdgE]

Originally Posted by Dumbledore

Don't think this guy even read the thread...

I recalled Cynix playing Jimdiddy in ACL, so I assume this thread comes from his games in ACL Sydney. Maybe you should think before you post, 'guy'

[Dumbledore]

Originally Posted by EdgE

I recalled Cynix playing Jimdiddy in ACL, so I assume this thread comes from his games in ACL Sydney. Maybe you should think before you post, 'guy'

Yes because I know about SG/AUS tournaments...

[dippa]

Originally Posted by Dumbledore

Yes because I know about SG/AUS tournaments...

but you're ******* dumbledore, you know everything :?????

Quick Comments

TAhackdZ:

He makes a valid point!

[Kepler]

Terrible map, especially the ladder edition.

[Zealo]

it's different to other maps, and i like it purely for that reason.

i have like a 20% win rate on it though

[SLCN.Kez]

Err youre in a SEA forum and youre going to assume its silly to know about sea/sg tournaments? I Dunno if trolling or... "remove the ledore from your name"
*edit*
To answer the question - No it shouldnt be removed altogether from the map pool as there are matchups/playstyles that can be pretty cool on the map, especially considering which editions might be in use. Just need to have a veto system in place to remove it if you wish, which they were going to have at ACL in the open bracket* (I THINK PROBS WRONG) but they removed it because of time constraints and chose to force maps instead which is slightly unfortunate
*I think this because on the challonge site it does have them saying a veto system is in place for open bracket*

[nGenLight]

I don't mind TDA being removed if you also take out Dual Sight and Metalopolis from ever being in tournies.

Quick Comments

	x5_Bard:
	mGGDaedalus:	but how will we have enough zerg in sea tourneys then?
	inFeZa:	don't you know that every map in the map pool has to be zerg favoured or else its unfair?! :P
	aLtNinja:	Sounds fair, these 3 maps get vetoed every ZvP anyway.
	ToRSmotPokingFish:

[Snx.Mufasa]

ive had the map vetoed forever...

though ive always thought forcing cross spawns and removing the rocks from the 3rd would possibly make it an enjoyable map.

It'd be like antiga but with easier to take 4th and 5ths.

Quick Comments

ToRSmotPokingFish:

this idea i like :)

[CyniX]

I was reffering to tourneys in Aus in general, qualifiers, acl, lansmash etc. having TDA as a forced map to start a BO3. Again I think it's fine to have in the map pool as long as there's vetos. But I definitely wouldn't be sad to see it gone aswell.

@Light, as a Zerg I went over the map list many times to look for Metal and/or Dual sight at ACL Syd, too my disappointment they weren't there keke ^,..,^

[MaTterJunKie]

Maybe TDA might work out, if it was forced diagonal spawns?

[syfChadMann]

TDA was first map of ACL Open Bracket round 2.. and I loved it >.<

I don't mind the map over all - I think it often produces some great games.. but I agree, it has alot of flaws.

[mGGMueX]

What's wrong with TDA, besides PvP? That can be fairly easily fixed by adding a ramp. I like it because it promotes really heavy macro play in every other matchup due to its huge size and easy 4 bases.

[neKo]

Originally Posted by mGGMueX

What's wrong with TDA, besides PvP? That can be fairly easily fixed by adding a ramp. I like it because it promotes really heavy macro play in every other matchup due to its huge size and easy 4 bases.

ZvZ TvZ and ZvP

[AvPoker]

taldarim altar is a great map
ill kill anyone that says otherwise

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by xGKingPoker

taldarim altar is a great map
ill kill anyone that says otherwise

Tal Darim Altar sucks.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	watch out, we got a badass over here

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by xGKingPoker

taldarim altar is a great map
ill kill anyone that says otherwise

Come at me, bro

[AvPoker]

Originally Posted by tgun

Come at me, bro

bo9 showmatch
tda only
gogogo

Quick Comments

	syfCabracan:	Loser gets a chobo tag on SC2sea?
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	i like cabracans terms :D
	FvRScrewby:	Let's get this happening!
	xGKingdelete:

[BearPack]

it feels pretty awkward going past 3 bases on that map

[aLtNinja]

No, you should be able to atleast veto any maps as broken as Tal'darim.

[JoFritzMD]

Originally Posted by cRChadMann

TDA was first map of ACL Open Bracket round 2.. and I loved it >.<

I don't mind the map over all - I think it often produces some great games.. but I agree, it has alot of flaws.

I just feel sorry for terrans forced to play on that map. TvZ cross map and TvP any positions are ridiculous on that map.

Quick Comments

Crankenstein:

He gets it.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Cross map isn't that bad, it's quite playable if you know the tricks. But it's still a ******* gay as shit map.

[QEDMazaire]

TDA wouldn't be that bad if it had no rocks at the third and a ramp to the main.

>.>

[TADivinity]

I couldnt believe shattered was the map that was voted out over TDA this season. TDA has been eating one of my vetoes for far too long now.

Antiga needs to be forced cross map. Its beyond me that this hasnt happened yet - especially after they recognised close-spots Shattered and Metal was retarded.

These are my two major, major griefs with the pool atm.

Quick Comments

PiG:

[Crankenstein]

TDA is a very important map for me. It taught me not to veto maps.

I hated it on ladder because in TvT it feels like a race to see who can siege the other players cliff first. In PvT every Protoss was doing a 2 base colossus all in to melt face with the cliff. I hated playing Zergs on it because pushing through the cetnre of the map felt difficult because it was so hugely open I felt very vulnerable. I don't care if the above is true or not, it's how I felt about the map so I vetoed it.

Rock up to santasmash, every round starts on TDA! I'm on the centre stage getting casted first against a Masters KR player, on a map I have played probably 5 times before and in my worst matchup at the time.

Instant tilt.

The next lansmash was much the same - TDA every round. I had unvetoed it and forced myself to learn to play on it but I still had this huge aversion to the map because of having it vetoed in the past and because of my experience at the previous lansmash.

If you have hopes of participating in a competitive scene be it something as huge as ACL or as small as your local lan - don't veto maps on ladder. Learn from my mistakes >.<

As for the actual topic of the thread I think it's kinda pointless to talk about any 1 map in particular so I'll address it generally:

If we are talking swiss then I think having any map as the first map for every single round is a bad Idea because it means most of that tournament is all going to be played on the one map. I think this is bad for 2 reasons - anyone that performs really well on that map is at a huge advantage throughout the tournament AND having most of a tournament all on the same map is bad for spectators as after a while all the games can start to feel kinda same-y.

If we are talking Brackets then I don't think it particularly matters what map is the first round as it will change each round anyway.

I won't pretend to know the solution to these problems, I don't think I am experienced enough to offer anything useful here and I'm sure anything I do offer someone better and more experienced than me will prove me wrong but I do find these two things I have outlined to be pretty big flaws to this system.

[deL]

I think it should be compulsory for every tournament and I think the rest of the map pool should be made up of the various versions of it (with the one without rocks at the 3rd put in twice for good measure).