[TASlowHands]

I have faith in divinity personally, and I aint going to write diatribes of why im correct and you're a hypocrite and wrong. Im going to practice my ZvT.

It looks like the decision has been made already. Why talk hilariously at length about it?

[VB_Rhuubarb]

I'll just add to the Nightmare thing...

I played him in week 1, so if he's become GM since then, it's been through hard work and a lot of improvement, as he definitely belonged in this league week 1. Anyone else could have made the same leap as Nightmare has, but for whatever reason hasn't... so kudos to Nightmare for his achievement, he earned it.

Quick Comments

	ToR.Arnor:	nice input ^_^
	Trinion:

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter

Isnt actually a clan? Its actually a little insulting to say something like that, I know you Lost and you're a good bloke so Im going to bite my tongue.


Just so you know Im the co-founder of the clan/team "Zerocraft"

The idea of "Zerocraft" was to the ultimate Lower tier team/clan its a team for all the displaced and teamless members of the community, My (and sumans) aim was to fill a gap to actually brand ourselves we were the team to go to if you didnt fit the mould, we're the misfits, from different walks of life we are the Herocraft of the lower divisions, "Clanless" may not have been a "real" team/clan however funny thing is after a season of playing together they were more of a clan then most.

I understand your frustration but I dont see what business a Tier 2 player has in questioning how T4 is run

TA tier 4 has what 4-5 Masters? Fact is he was Masters when he join and ZC picked up a Master or two because they entered into this league in good faith with Diamond / Plat players, not knowing Masters could be involved having a small roster when time came to recruit naturally a strong Masters player is preferred over a average Plat player, we could have just said screw it can Tier 4 will pack our Tier 5 roster with Plats when things got tough but suman wanted to remain in the competition. Cant blame a person for getting better at the game, 1 week is left in the comp why argue over something silly? In the off season ZC will hopefully pick up a couple more Masters and hopefully some plat-diamond and diamond-masters promotions will mean they can make T3.

Yeah Suman was out of line with his rant he knows that but its easily to lose your temper when the pot is calling the kettle black


Just so you know some of our members have already used their name change to add ZC to their name

Id like to thank you for your input today because youve convinced me to do the same

Oh, I apologize then. I just assumed ZeroCraft still was what it was originally made for; just a team for players without clans to go in order to participate in this league. I didn't realise you guys actually made a clan out of it, which is a sick idea, so I take back my 'isn't really a clan' statement.

What's it matter whether I'm t2, t4 or t5 or just some random unknown player bringing the issue up? My position in the matter doesn't change anything, I'm not questioning how t4 is run, simply bringing this issue up. It was also highlighted HERE by riiChard, a Tier 1 leader, and there wasn't even a response by admins like there was in this thread. If anything, I feel me bringing the situation to the surface will at least make everyone more aware next time.

How was it the pot calling the kettle black? How in ANY way can you justify HIS reply to this thread? Sugar coat it all you like, it was a delibrate attempt at trolling by someone who has a reputation like his, it should have never been posted. He has since apologized for his actions, which is fine by me, but I'd still like to hear your reasoning behind 'the pot calling the kettle black'.

We get along dude, I have no problems with you and I apologize for calling your clan not a clan (I didn't know) but the rest of your post just makes me sad. It's been spoken about and that's all I was after; an explanation..

Originally Posted by VB_Rhuubarb

I'll just add to the Nightmare thing...

I played him in week 1, so if he's become GM since then, it's been through hard work and a lot of improvement, as he definitely belonged in this league week 1. Anyone else could have made the same leap as Nightmare has, but for whatever reason hasn't... so kudos to Nightmare for his achievement, he earned it.

How long into SEACL did the new season start? I'm going to say maybe 2-3 weeks. Going from a mid-masters player that season, to 3 weeks later being able to pull a 48-14 record in Gandmaster? Okay, looking forward to seeing this guy in GSL in about 2 months. I heard their team is disbanding after this SEACL season anyway, so best of luck to whatever team picks him up. Definitely a future powerhouse..

[VB_Rhuubarb]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

How long into SEACL did the new season start? I'm going to say maybe 2-3 weeks. Going from a mid-masters player that season, to 3 weeks later being able to pull a 48-14 record in Gandmaster? Okay, looking forward to seeing this guy in GSL in about 2 months. I heard their team is disbanding after this SEACL season anyway, so best of luck to whatever team picks him up. Definitely a future powerhouse..

There is a 2-3 week gap where he doesn't ladder (starts laddering again 3 weeks ago, which shows why he didn't finish high on the ladder S5) and comes back with a massive winning stream. So he's probably got another account to practice on (maybe on a different server), unless you are inferring something else. His lack of games this season, and the link you posted which claims he plays against players like Catz and inControL points to the fact that he probably practices on a different server now.

Regarding what you quoted me on, it's been nearly 2 months, seeing as I beat him in week 1 and it's now week 9 (as per the title of this thread). It's not as if he's been perfect in this league too, he does have a winning record but he's had a TONNE of walkovers and a couple of losses, one fairly recently too. As the T4 admins have stated, there were no league restrictions, and there wasn't a problem with Nightmare at the start of the season. So why are you bringing this up now?

[TAScaramanga]

Originally Posted by VB_Rhuubarb

There is a 2-3 week gap where he doesn't ladder (starts laddering again 3 weeks ago, which shows why he didn't finish high on the ladder S5) and comes back with a massive winning stream. So he's probably got another account to practice on (maybe on a different server), unless you are inferring something else. His lack of games this season, and the link you posted which claims he plays against players like Catz and inControL points to the fact that he probably practices on a different server now.

Regarding what you quoted me on, it's been nearly 2 months, seeing as I beat him in week 1 and it's now week 9 (as per the title of this thread). It's not as if he's been perfect in this league too, he does have a winning record but he's had a TONNE of walkovers and a couple of losses, one fairly recently too. As the T4 admins have stated, there were no league restrictions, and there wasn't a problem with Nightmare at the start of the season. So why are you bringing this up now?

Because this is T4 not T2

[VB_Rhuubarb]

Originally Posted by TAScaramanga

Because this is T4 not T2

What does that even mean?

Are you saying he shouldn't have been let into T4 in the first place, or that he should now be kicked out now?

Quick Comments

TAScaramanga:

Come on man, you can't be serious

[x5_Potter]

Why hasn't any other team brought up the issue of GM players in this league? Surely you check the league of the person you're playing, and no other team has complained? Neg rep me if you will, but get the hell over it.

Quick Comments

	TAScaramanga:	you did ask for it
	ToRSpookToR:	scarmanga you are a ******* jerk so bm on ladder

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

We get along dude, I have no problems with you and I apologize for calling your clan not a clan (I didn't know) but the rest of your post just makes me sad. It's been spoken about and that's all I was after; an explanation..

The pot/kettle thing was that tier 4 was conceptually for PD players but your clans T4 team is stacked with Masters, similar how your clans Tier 5 (conceptually BSG) started off with a good number of Plats and now even has diamonds (nothing against them congrats on the promotions) so it was its a little annoying when people (not just you) bag out ZC for having 1 guy who has gotten a little too good for what T4 was intended for (yeah no league restrictions etc)

Yeah suman didnt respond correctly while I dont agree with his response/troll (and even he says it was dumb of him) I can totally understand why he'd lose his stack

I think moving forward from this, no doubt next season rules can be put in place to accommodate issues like this, next season suman is looking to field a T3 team and I will probably look at fielding a T4 and T5 team again so if admins feel a player in our ranks is too strong we'll be happy to move him up a Tier

Quick Comments

	VB_Rhuubarb:	Completely agree
	Trinion:

[syfMiley]

Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter

The pot/kettle thing was that tier 4 was conceptually for PD players but your clans T4 team is stacked with Masters

We started off with no masters and decided to field in one seeing that a bunch of other teams fielded in some.
Almost all of our active players got promotions, cept for me I just went backwards

Quick Comments

ToR.Arnor:

too much Dota ^_^

[deL]

I have some of the outstanding lineups for the other teams but will be away for an hour or two now. I will update them when I am back! Check the thread closer to the play time tonight to see who you're up against

Quick Comments

TAScaramanga:

nicely run brendel

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by VB_Rhuubarb

There is a 2-3 week gap where he doesn't ladder (starts laddering again 3 weeks ago, which shows why he didn't finish high on the ladder S5) and comes back with a massive winning stream. So he's probably got another account to practice on (maybe on a different server), unless you are inferring something else. His lack of games this season, and the link you posted which claims he plays against players like Catz and inControL points to the fact that he probably practices on a different server now.

Regarding what you quoted me on, it's been nearly 2 months, seeing as I beat him in week 1 and it's now week 9 (as per the title of this thread). It's not as if he's been perfect in this league too, he does have a winning record but he's had a TONNE of walkovers and a couple of losses, one fairly recently too. As the T4 admins have stated, there were no league restrictions, and there wasn't a problem with Nightmare at the start of the season. So why are you bringing this up now?

@ You and all those that are still replying with "get over it", I haven't pressed the issue ONCE since Lemminks replied to the thread with an explanation. The fact you posted AFTER he replied was unnecessary and that's why I commented on your post/opinion alone, not the whole situation. 48-14 isn't a lack of games this season, and the fact is hes boasting a 75% win ratio in grandmaster, something very few of even the top GM's can hold consistently. His lost was against Flar wasn't it? Lol. I'm not pressing the issue any more, it's been commented on by the admin and I'm happy that he took the time to reply before it got out of hand. You don't need to bring it up anymore, it's done.

==========

Originally Posted by Arnor@CityHunter

The pot/kettle thing was that tier 4 was conceptually for PD players but your clans T4 team is stacked with Masters, similar how your clans Tier 5 (conceptually BSG) started off with a good number of Plats and now even has diamonds (nothing against them congrats on the promotions) so it was its a little annoying when people (not just you) bag out ZC for having 1 guy who has gotten a little too good for what T4 was intended for (yeah no league restrictions etc)

Yeah suman didnt respond correctly while I dont agree with his response/troll (and even he says it was dumb of him) I can totally understand why he'd lose his stack

I think moving forward from this, no doubt next season rules can be put in place to accommodate issues like this, next season suman is looking to field a T3 team and I will probably look at fielding a T4 and T5 team again so if admins feel a player in our ranks is too strong we'll be happy to move him up a Tier

The only reason our T4 had any masters players to begin with (Divinity being the only one) is because all the other teams were stacked with Masters. You don't know the full story, but we had a massive argument (I was actually the person leading the argument) against the people who wanted the T5 team to be stacked with plats. I made sure this wasn't the case for not only Edarus and everyone in T5's sake, but because they belonged in T4.

In tier 2, TA is on the opposing end of this stick; with theoretically 2 gm's that can play weekly + dippa whose games have to be rescheduled, competing with full-GM teams is tough and in my personal opinion we belonged in T3 from the start, however that's not the issue and I'm happy we're competing with these teams as I'm sure other T4 teams are the same when they take games off better players in their own tier.

I don't think it was the pot calling the kettle black as I was a massive influence on who belonged in what TA team, trying to get the teams as fair as possible in terms of their divisions and the tier they competed in. I guess I'm just a big believer in fair play and that's why I brought this issue up in the first place.

Peace.

Quick Comments

	KAshadowz:	sounds good to me
	FaDeBadger:
	TAriiChard:	well said mate

[TADivinity]

Originally Posted by VB_Rhuubarb

...There wasn't a problem with Nightmare at the start of the season. So why are you bringing this up now?

To support Lost, you have to understand that at the time we play Nightmare compared to when you did, we saw a very different opponent. You saw a mid-masters player. We see a 48-14 top 50sh GM in Tier 4 - a record that is generally better than most Tier 2 players.


Do not get me wrong, this is definitely a commendable thing. But you have to understand why we all went "wtf?" and this issue was brought up.


Finally, I'm not whinging away so that I don't have to play him. I know it sounds ironic considering my record in this league (Which, by the way, has not been easy to get. I've had some -seriously- close BO3's). I look forward to our games though, and can only hope that they're nice and competitive!

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

I don't think it was the pot calling the kettle black as I was a massive influence on who belonged in what TA team, trying to get the teams as fair as possible in terms of their divisions and the tier they competed in. I guess I'm just a big believer in fair play and that's why I brought this issue up in the first place.

Peace.

fair enough sorry for having a go at you thanks for taking the time to give me a little insight into it all

You need to start streaming again though bro T_T

peace

[VB_Rhuubarb]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

@ You and all those that are still replying with "get over it", I haven't pressed the issue ONCE since Lemminks replied to the thread with an explanation. The fact you posted AFTER he replied was unnecessary and that's why I commented on your post/opinion alone, not the whole situation. 48-14 isn't a lack of games this season, and the fact is hes boasting a 75% win ratio in grandmaster, something very few of even the top GM's can hold consistently. His lost was against Flar wasn't it? Lol. I'm not pressing the issue any more, it's been commented on by the admin and I'm happy that he took the time to reply before it got out of hand. You don't need to bring it up anymore, it's done.

I hardly feel as showing support for someone I played against is unnecessary, seeing as I have had experience with him. Also actually playing for and managing a team in t4, I felt like my opinion would provide some insight on how actual T4 players felt about him and that it was pretty cool for me to have beaten someone who would later become a GM. It also gives me hope that one day I could become as he is now. Which is a factor in these lower league, trying to improve ourselves and being able to compare our progression to others who were originally similar to us.

I would call quoting me on that, pressing the issue (after an admins post).

[Ceephyr]

do we get a walkover vs fade1?

[Zealo]

@divinity

note that of all the teams that have played KFC since he hit GM (when GM was released this season i believe), only TA have brought it up as an issue (by TA, i mean 1 TA player seems unreasonably upset, which is odd when he doesn't play in this league (i think)). saying rhuubarb is seeing the issue from a different POV to you and therefore can't understand is unfair. AsG is playing them this week (just like TA), i have no problems with him or any other players promoted to GM playing this week or in the finals.

the rules were stated clearly at the start of the season and haven't changed, that's why people are not sympathetic to the "WTF?!?!?" reaction from TA.

congrats on your awesome record this season and i'm hoping i get to watch some of TA vs KFC (particularly your games)

Quick Comments

Trinion:

[Zealo]

back on topic

AsG vs KFC
zealo [2 > 1] TSAce

[deL]

Originally Posted by Ceephyr

do we get a walkover vs fade1?

No, unless they no-show.

[AxS.Sorathez]

The match between FaDe 2 and HDMD-KT has been rescheduled to 6PM SGT (9PM AEDT) Friday 16/3/12 Agreement

TCP vs FaDe 2: current score: 2-3

Durrr < 2-1 > FaDeKazi (Metalopolis)
FYRE < Resched > Kerrigan (Shattered Temple) Rescheduled to just after the game vs HDMD-KT Agreement
ElementFC < W.O. > FaDeSagi (Dual Sight) Element did not turn up
TragicHero < 2-1 > FaDeSorathez (Calm Before the Storm)
ZiggyD < 1-2 > FaDePesi - ACE (Tal'Darim Altar)

Quick Comments

TragicHero:

I concur

[TADivinity]

Originally Posted by Zealo

@divinity

note that of all the teams that have played KFC since he hit GM (when GM was released this season i believe), only TA have brought it up as an issue

I think it's also possibly because TA is one of the only teams in T4 that actually have high Masters/GM players at our disposal to put in T4 if we so wished.

With this in mind, your words towards Lost are unfair - he just voiced many (TA) people's sentiments. Also, Lost actually divided our players between T2/3/4, so it isn't random that he jumped into T4 and talked about this.

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[TA]LoSt: