[wTlzq]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

If you see zerg go fast (like 6-7 min) 3rd, get your own fast third (around 9 min)

im not a toss player.
But i know a fast third for a zerg means 4+ mins. And your warp gate finishes at around 7-8 mins FASTEST. how do u get enough minerals to squeeze out a third?

Oh and btw, if zerg sees that you are trying to play macro with him, he can drone up to 75+ easily, and max out on roach ling at 12 mins

PS: your build seems to be revolving around the fact that he would do a three base timing atk to put himself behind, which most zergs dont

[Shana]

Originally Posted by lzq

But i know a fast third for a zerg means 4+ mins. And your warp gate finishes at around 7-8 mins FASTEST. how do u get enough minerals to squeeze out a third?

For me normally fast 3rd zerg is 5+mins and best time to scout for it safely too.

I am a toss player and I am very sure normal warp gate can start warping in units at earliest 6min sharp. A Korean warp gate can start warping in at 5min 45secs.

Oh and btw, if zerg sees that you are trying to play macro with him, he can drone up to 75+ easily, and max out on roach ling at 12 mins

This is where toss/terran have to prevent zerg from doing, always have to pressure a bit at the front door to force the zerg to build attacking units instead of just drones. Else zerg can reach 200 very fast.

[MrHobo]

I suggest a 4 gate stargate build. It's pretty common right now, but Zergs still aren't completely adjusted to it. Go FFE and take 2 gas at normal timings for Stargate. Add on 3 more gates for a total of 4 and have a proxy pylon where his third would be (he should have a third if you're highly ranked, if not he's probably doing a large push. If you are of lower league and he didn't go for a third, place it near his natural). Warp in a good amount of zealots and start harassing while the voidray is on its way. At the very least, you force him to stop making drones and deal with your attack. Best case, he was too greedy and you kill off an expansion. During this you can take a third of your own, add on a lot of gateways, or go into higher tech and go for the game winner. I suggest watching pro VODs for timings.

[Trusty]

Originally Posted by MrHobo

I suggest a 4 gate stargate build. It's pretty common right now, but Zergs still aren't completely adjusted to it. Go FFE and take 2 gas at normal timings for Stargate. Add on 3 more gates for a total of 4 and have a proxy pylon where his third would be (he should have a third if you're highly ranked, if not he's probably doing a large push. If you are of lower league and he didn't go for a third, place it near his natural). Warp in a good amount of zealots and start harassing while the voidray is on its way. At the very least, you force him to stop making drones and deal with your attack. Best case, he was too greedy and you kill off an expansion. During this you can take a third of your own, add on a lot of gateways, or go into higher tech and go for the game winner. I suggest watching pro VODs for timings.

that is 3/4gate +1 zealot voidray

[Next_rim]

All I can say to Next Rim is, regardless how great your theorycrafting is, or whatnot, unless you are producing replays of you using the strategies you have provided against competition level that we can take seriously, people like me and Yang are going to take your words with a grain of salt, and I recommend others to try to learn the more basic PvZ meta-game(if you really want to improve) before they move on to something crazy like capital-ship oriented PvZ.

Fair enough, my best opponents are EU masters. However, I do not take arguments along the lines of "not viable in competitive environment" seriously for the simple reason that my builds are for ladder, and ladder only. But I do advocate them for their easiness of execution, fun and well-defined strengths and weaknesses.

I do very well know that no serious progamer protoss uses anything remotely close.We also all know that playing at very high level is far from build-centered. And if person is asking for a build, chances of that build being used outside ladder are about 0. Moreover, I really doubt OP (or in fact half of the readers here) play anything but ladder and community tourneys.

So if any1 is willing to try my builds, or offer constructive criticism applicable to my level, I'm open for suggestion, or can submit any number of replays on any map with loads of variations. For all the better players out there who know their stuff - gl hf

[dippa]

Originally Posted by HoHVenom

Please let me know on some follow ups for FFE.

alt+f4 works nicely

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

lol

[wTlzq]

next_rim u need to submit a replay of yourself with that build first, i am really interested to see how your build works in a replay

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by lzq

next_rim u need to submit a replay of yourself with that build first, i am really interested to see how your build works in a replay

If, i'm not that forgetful, i think i used that strat on you once before. On taldarim altar which is a shitty map for that strat since the zerg can expand everywhere

[Next_rim]

next_rim u need to submit a replay of yourself with that build first, i am really interested to see how your build works in a replay

No problem. Here are all my PvZ's starting from 14-th of February. 26 games total, 21 wins, 3 losses, 2 disconnects. I believe 2x losses are from early pools (7 or 8), and I don't remember the 3rd. Opponents vary from high diamond to rank 11 master. I believe in all these I went carriers. If I accidentally threw in some games where I cannon some noobs, disregard that, you will probably tell by game length.

Games are different, some are crazy, some are stupid, some are plain wins, some are hard long fights. If you are interested, I can go through my replays and pick the best ones from my perspective, but for now I can only give you a quick rep pack.

Link is to a Russian hosting website, there is a winrar file with replays. Disregard all random banners with tits, vodka and bears.

http://zalil.ru/32800637

[Kluey]

Go for a 4-gate pressure. It's the safest way to play. After your FFE, chrono boost your warp gate research and have +1 attack lag 10-20 seconds behind so that when you get to his base, you'll have +1.

Send a zealot+probe to get a pylon down. If you see him having only spines + zerglings, he's going for mutalisks. Throw down a twilight council and get blink if this is the case. If you see roaches, get a robo and go for colossus tech.

The point of this pressure is not to do damage but rather to scout. Only warp in zealots and spend your gas at home on tech and sentries.