[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Maynarde

This thread was approved by nirvAnA and Benji himself.

Did I miss something?? It seems to me like Benji doesn't even know the thread exists yet...

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

The public nature of this thread is aimed to force Benji to realise that he needs to take this seriously.

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

I'm making this thread because Benji is too proud to do so

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

in response to Benji ignoring all attempts to help him out.

I suppose I'm assuming or may have missed it but I haven't seen anything where Benji asked for this thread...

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:	You're very late to the party mate
	syfChadMann:	l2read
	simon:	oh dear
	Snx.FigJig:	^
	Dox:	Need to read the thread buddy!
	Fourby:	sigh
	NOM:	Slowpoke
	AxSGRiM:	im joining the train
	ROOTPetraeus:	LOL^
	BaKaiNu:	Warning for double posting, don't misunderstand.
	TAkrunch:	urg, hey everyone, its THAT guy
	FaDeBadger:	^

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I suppose I'm assuming or may have missed it but I haven't seen anything where Benji asked for this thread...

I suppose I'm assuming or may have missed it but I haven't seen anything that makes it seem like you actually read this thread...

Quick Comments

TABiggun:

LOL

[TAEdarus]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Also, you're essentially talking behind his back...

I hope thats a general "you're" since my first post was the one above.
The thread was actually posted while he was online and active in the chatbox. Should we lock the thread until he comes back?

Originally Posted by Rockstar

He's not actively here to defend himself.

Defend himself? You're implying he's being attacked. He isn't.

Originally Posted by Rockstar

He might even stop casting altogether when he reads some of the stuff being said.

If he does that would be rather sad, I don't think people would be posting here if they didn't genuinely want to help the guy out and by proxy help the community out. Nobody has come here to scare the guy off or put him down.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:
	Dox:
	Champi:	ur so good at talking on the internet man <3

[TAEdarus]

Originally Posted by Dox

[19/02/2012 7:04:36 PM] Bryan Choo (aLt.NirvAnA): Benji has given the go ahead with the constructive feedback thread

http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p=72460&postcount=23

In nirvAnA I trust.

(Admin note: Warned for Double Post i.e not editing previous post, like Rockstar)

[deL]

Rockstar is making my head hurt.

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by TAdeL

Rockstar is making my head hurt.

That's what rockstars do...oh nevermind.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

loled!

[Rockstar]

General you're..

I feel he's being attacked in a few of these posts... Veiled criticism.

No it wouldn't be good if he quit casting after reading some of these posts..

Yah I missed that part of the post, if he gave the go ahead then I spose it's ok... A lot of these posts I still feel are harsh and posted more as an attack than as any kind of constructive criticism.

Since he gave the go ahead, I'll throw in my 2c...

Benji I think sometimes you get caught in the moment. You're obviously a pretty confident guy and it shows in your casts... Nothing wrong with confidence but sometimes people can take it the wrong way and after a while they'll just think you're arrogant and dismiss it without much more thought... When you watch your own replays you're probably just as harsh on yourself as you are on the people you cast, maybe worse... I think this thread is a good example of how criticism can be a double edged sword. Noone wants to be told how bad they are so just try to take their feelings and the viewers feelings into consideration when you highlight their faults.

If you were a little more in depth with the specific reason why they are bad, without actually saying "they're bad" you can pretty much say whatever the hell you want... As long as it doesn't become personal.

e.g. "What a spastic, he can't even micro his banelings" could be said in another way such as: "That miss micro on those banelings cost him dearly, if he payed a little more attention to those 2 units that could have been the deciding factor in the game"

or

"He has 100 energy on his mains queen, what a douche his macro is disgusting" could be

"He has 100 energy on his mains queen, those missed injects are really beginning to impact on the game. He's floating minerals and the protoss army is significantly larger than his right now.

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:
	Maynarde:	Much better post
	Bash:
	PiG:
	Nemo:	Yes
	crAzerk:	yay finally

[Dox]

Those comparisons in Rockstar's above post are really good. And I especially loved this one from NirvAnA.

Talk up other players /team instead of talkign down - talk about their achievements etc. For e.g instead of saying "Eve is a free win" say stuff like Eve is a upcoming team that many people underrate, in fact last season EveRekanise beat EnDerr in the last SEACL qualifications and they have many strong players who train hard on Korea. The result is Eve feels proud and happy to be recognised rather then angry at you, and you get well liked by them and get their support instead of hated. kelly once called souj a "all he does is cheese" after he beat GLaDe and he and WsWg hated her (and some still do) for a long time. These offensive words stick with people!

This is all really valuable stuff.

[Delraich]

The only thing I can really add is to fake enthusiasm when you are not really in the mood for casting.

For example, I often tune in at the tail end of a cast which is usually late at night on the east coast (it is not so late for me here in Perth). From my perspective, I just want to chill out and watch a good game and zone out before I go to bed. If during this time you are tired and keep reminding us how tired you are and how you have work the next morning and you hope that they all in each other and then get really upset when they play a longer/ macro game and then hope for a bad engagement so you can go to sleep, this does take away some of the enjoyment factor from my side.

[TAlkori]

I personally like to watch benji for his arrogance, bias and crisitism of players.. thats why I watch it because I find it entertaining.

Quick Comments

	TCPKiaSu:	lol
	Dox:

[Peleus]

The vast majority of stuff has already been mentioned, so I'll try and post this without sounding too negative.

No one can deny your dedication, there is no other caster that spends as much time going to events and casting online as you, that's a great thing.

The biggest issue I have however is that it seems as though the issues surrounding your casting doesn't only negatively effect yourself, but mainly your team. Constantly it feels like you're personally is so overbearing that your players are pushed to a secondary role, and xGKing becomes more about Benji than it does about the fabulous players that are in the team. It just feels, rightly or wrongly that you get off on the 'fame' that comes along with being involved in a team while not considering that your players should be front and centre more than anything. I just feels as though you get a big head over xGKing when really it's Mafia, Iaguz, Light, Poker, Myuu, Jazbaz and Bielsko that do the heavy lifting. If you're stream was separate from xGKing than this would be a moot point, but considering such heavy bias on it I think it must be considered related.

This personality trait ties into your casting by the obsession over casting numbers and viewers, as if you're the only reason they are watching. The best way I've seen it put is you're the gateway to content people want to watch, but it's the content that they want to see. So I suppose the question is why the f$#@ am I posting this? Just don't watch right? The biggest reason why is because often you're getting your streams listed on TL, we're starting to get international people checking out the SEA scene and you're the impression that they get. This doesn't have to be a negative thing if you work on some aspects that have been raised here, but currently I think more people are turned off rather than motived to continue watching SEA events, and when that occurs I find it a horrible thing considering we all want SEA to grow. Along with that I feel some xGKing members deserve to have the focus more on them rather than their manager who should be behind the scene's promoting them.

I know it may all sound rather contradictory (I mean heavy bias to xGKing but not promoting players, wtf?!) but perhaps the description of what I feel would be an ideal stream might clear things up. I'd love one day to be able to tune into a stream that equally highlights the actions of both sides without bias. I'd love to hear when an xGKing member does something bad and how someone else punished it rather than simply being called cheesy. I'd love to hear when an xGKing member does something really well (as long as they actually have). Thankfully xGKing has players who's actions can speak for themselves, they don't need artificial hype surrounding them meaning viewers simply switch off to any positive points mentioned thinking it's just more bias. Then when Mafia wins it's great to hear about how Mafia played, not how xGKing is great. Hype the players not that tag that's attached to them which you happen to share, results will carry your brand along with the player.

Bit rambling, sorry.

Quick Comments

Dox:

wonderful

[dippa]

I don't really care about Benji's casting, I've only listened to it a couple of times so I can't really say one way or another.

My issue with Benji stems from his behaviour at the Battle.net Invitational last year at INTIME.

TAriichard got there early and was setting up all the computers, moderating the stream and making sure things ran smoothly.

I was there as press only, so I observed for the majority of the day and hung out with Richard a lot; I'd only joined TA a month or two ago, so I was still getting to know everyone.

After one of the matches, Benji came out from the caster's booth (a room on the opposite side of the venue from where the games were being played) and started asking Richard questions about the stream.

My problem was in the way that Benji asked the questions. They were extremely abrupt and incredibly rude for someone who had been working their arse off all day.

I don't doubt that Benji knew what he was doing and that he knows shitloads more than Richard about streaming. But the manner in which he spoke to someone who had been nothing but helpful and respectable was completely disgraceful.

I've seen and ran a lot of LAN events myself in various locations. Often it's necessary to be blunt and rude to players to stop them from wasting time. Nobody wants to go home after midnight. But admins should never talk to each other that way, and in nearly a decade of going to LANs for various games and events, I've never been as disgusted as how I saw Benji talk to Richard that day.

If it was just one time I wouldn't mind; stress etc. But it happened throughout the course of the day and I'll never forget the complete and utter lack of politeness and just gratitude that Richard was shown by SEA's Best Caster(TM).

You don't have to blow someone to show gratitude; just don't treat them like a piece of shit.

Quick Comments

	cruxSpoon:	Probably good points, wrong thread
	VoxMSI.Rogue:
	AxSGRiM:	im just reppin cos i did a cheese on ladder
	nGenLight:	Alex this isn't an everybody hang Benji thread, come on.
	Fourby:	Screw you light, This is a perfectly legit reason why people dont wanna watch the stream, but have to coz he's the only one casting the high level games
	nirvAnA:	Agree with light there, dippa tone it down no need for those words
	Snx.FigJig:
	deL:	richard was a hero at blizzcon
	Dox:	ugh, the battle.net invitational was rough
	pRoTimber:
	TADivinity:	Completely agree with Fourby's point right here.

[Strafe]

Just like Targa I won't let Benji in my games anymore, no matter what. Maybe this can be taken into consideration by Benji that his arrogance and blatant lack of respect for players he isn't familiar with really brought it this far and that it's not just talk.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by dippa

I don't really care about Benji's casting, I've only listened to it a couple of times so I can't really say one way or another.

My issue with Benji stems from his behaviour at the Battle.net Invitational last year at INTIME.

TAriichard got there early and was setting up all the computers, moderating the stream and making sure things ran smoothly.

I was there as press only, so I observed for the majority of the day and hung out with Richard a lot; I'd only joined TA a month or two ago, so I was still getting to know everyone.

After one of the matches, Benji came out from the caster's booth (a room on the opposite side of the venue from where the games were being played) and started asking Richard questions about the stream.

My problem was in the way that Benji asked the questions. They were extremely abrupt and incredibly rude for someone who had been working their arse off all day.

I don't doubt that Benji knew what he was doing and that he knows shitloads more than Richard about streaming. But the manner in which he spoke to someone who had been nothing but helpful and respectable was completely disgraceful.

I've seen and ran a lot of LAN events myself in various locations. Often it's necessary to be blunt and rude to players to stop them from wasting time. Nobody wants to go home after midnight. But admins should never talk to each other that way, and in nearly a decade of going to LANs for various games and events, I've never been as disgusted as how I saw Benji talk to Richard that day.

If it was just one time I wouldn't mind; stress etc. But it happened throughout the course of the day and I'll never forget the complete and utter lack of politeness and just gratitude that Richard was shown by SEA's Best Caster(TM).

You don't have to blow someone to show gratitude; just don't treat them like a piece of shit.

Could you please shoot me a PM describing this further? I can't comment on this without knowing the full story.

On the topic of the thread, there is only one thing I wish to add, which I think will come off as harsh, but that's just how I am.

You're a good play-by-play caster. You're an alright analytical caster. You don't play enough to understand the top tier well enough to call out players for being bad; you're able to recognise exceptional play (pulling scvs away from a scouting drone to simulate less workers to force an overreaction), but the same could easily be mistaken as bad play (omg he just misclicked his scvs away, wtf). I feel like pairing you up with a really good analytical caster (I'm talking like Artosis level: someone who just studies / practices the game) would do wonders, as you cast battles pretty well (although, don't try to build up battles which are clearly going to be landslides one way or the other; I understand that you're attempting to create hype, but it has an indirect effect of making you look as if you know much less about the game). I'm rambling, but I guess the focal point of my post would be, instead of getting a co-caster like Zeph (honestly, would be good with play-by-play, banter, etc in my opinion) find a co-caster who is crazy analytical.

Feel like I should re-iterate that this is all just my opinion, obviously not going to be 100% correct, and I am open to discussion.

Also, anyone flat out insulting him is a ****. You know who you are. *****.

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by tgun

*****.

No censorship? My EYES BURN T_______T

Quick Comments

Maynarde:

gg sc2sea censor.

[nGenLight]

Er Fourby.... regarding Dippa's post. I wasn't trying to say I disagree, but it was totally off track, this thread was supposed to help Benji, not find every thing he has ever done wrong to lynch him with. It felt like, OMG A BENJI THREAD *comes in to throw a stone at Benji*, not cool man.

The rep system is retarded because as long a post is cleverly constructed/or the player is well liked in the community, regardless of whether it was off topic or one-sided argument it gets alot of upvotes.

Quick Comments

	Bash:	Relevance! +1
	wolf:

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

The rep system is retarded because as long a post is cleverly constructed/or the player is well liked in the community, regardless of whether it was off topic or one-sided argument it gets alot of upvotes.

This is why I had my rep abilities (pos / neg) revoked: I told nirvana I thought it was stupid and just started neg / pos repping random posts because it honestly holds very little value.

EDIT: **** YOUUUUUUUUU

Quick Comments

	ROOT`iaguz:	but I still have this power at least.
	NvPinder:	Get a load of my power.
	iM yang:	POWER OVERWHELMING
	deL:	exactly what someone with no friends WOULD say! xD
	NvRossi:	Pelican
	Champi:	u mirin my rep aesthetics bro?
	cruxBsK:	coldPOWER
	TABiggun:	judas judaaaaaaaaaaas
	syfChadMann:	I like turtles
	TAScarecrow:	circle jerk ftw
	Bash:	so much circlejerking on rep comments. T.T
	Rockstar:
	Synizta:
	TAkrunch:	have some rep
	Cool30:	Rep POWER

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by tgun

This is why I had my rep abilities (pos / neg) revoked: I told nirvana I thought it was stupid and just started neg / pos repping random posts because it honestly holds very little value.

I tried to fight the law too man.

The law won.

Quick Comments

	TABjornbrandr:
	TAEdarus:	Breakin' rocks in the hot sun...

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

I tried to fight the law too man.

The law won.

Well.. ****.

[dippa]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Er Fourby.... regarding Dippa's post. I wasn't trying to say I disagree, but it was totally off track, this thread was supposed to help Benji, not find every thing he has ever done wrong to lynch him with. It felt like, OMG A BENJI THREAD *comes in to throw a stone at Benji*, not cool man.

The rep system is retarded because as long a post is cleverly constructed/or the player is well liked in the community, regardless of whether it was off topic or one-sided argument it gets alot of upvotes.

That wasn't the point of my post; I was trying to point out something that I don't think Benji would have noticed (but I certainly did). Apparently it wasn't constructive because there wasn't anything positive in what I said, but there you go -_-