SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

**Dox** · Mon, 13th-Feb-2012, 3:19 PM

Lots of misunderstanding on this page about MULE's. A Terran player who drops MULE's on a gold base in the next patch is LOSING money. You'd have to be very silly to make this mistake.

SCV mines 7 minerals per trip.
MULE mines 5 minerals per trip.
For each MULE you drop on a Gold Mineral patch, you're literally dissolving ~120 minerals. You should only drop them on blue minerals, regardless of saturation.

EDIT: gonna edit this post when I get home from work, I'm reading it on my phone atm and it's worded very poorly. Misleading.

**|Erasmus|** · Mon, 13th-Feb-2012, 3:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

Lots of misunderstanding on this page about MULE's. A Terran player who drops MULE's on a gold base in the next patch is LOSING money. You'd have to be very silly to make this mistake.

SCV mines 7 minerals per trip.
MULE mines 5 minerals per trip.
For each MULE you drop on a Gold Mineral patch, you're literally dissolving ~120 minerals. You should only drop them on blue minerals, regardless of saturation.

That's what I said right at the start about a Terran being disadvantaged by mules on gold now...

Not the biggest deal, but still.

**inFeZa** · Mon, 13th-Feb-2012, 3:23 PM

all the more reason to make an unbreakable PF at the gold now T_T

**Dox** · Mon, 13th-Feb-2012, 3:24 PM

Don't you mean less of a reason?

**|Erasmus|** · Mon, 13th-Feb-2012, 3:25 PM

He meant mules aren't horribly broken on gold bases, so one extra orbital is less worth it when you can planetary a gold base on some maps (like say, metal)

breadfan · Mon, 13th-Feb-2012, 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dox

Lots of misunderstanding on this page about MULE's. A Terran player who drops MULE's on a gold base in the next patch is LOSING money. You'd have to be very silly to make this mistake.

SCV mines 7 minerals per trip.
MULE mines 5 minerals per trip.
For each MULE you drop on a Gold Mineral patch, you're literally dissolving ~120 minerals. You should only drop them on blue minerals, regardless of saturation.

EDIT: gonna edit this post when I get home from work, I'm reading it on my phone atm and it's worded very poorly. Misleading.

Mules will still mine 30 minerals per trip right? They just won't get the bonus 12 they currently get (total 42 minerals/trip muling a gold patch today).

Assuming this is the case, then that's not right at all.

There is only X number of minerals available to mine. By muling a gold base, you mine out the gold base faster. The mule will mine the same as it does on a blue base. There aren't magically more minerals that get mined if you use an SCV to mine.

Quick Comments

mGGDaedalus:

TABiggun · Tue, 14th-Feb-2012, 5:34 PM

I think they made a mistake. It's meant to say

"There was a lot of concern and debate regarding whether APM should be a fun, play style distinguishing factor or it should be an accurate number like it has been traditionally."

Or even:

"There was a lot of concern and debate regarding whether APM should be a random, meaningless number or it should be an accurate number like it has been traditionally."

FaDeBadger · Tue, 14th-Feb-2012, 5:43 PM

APM stands for Actions per minute. Meaningless actions should still be counted in this. I like the change to Commands per minute, which is what we are using currently under the tag of APM.

Having both serves the purpose of making everybody happy.

maykid · Wed, 15th-Feb-2012, 1:03 AM

Honestly... The Pheonix upgrade won't do anything because it will cost way too much, and by the time you get the fleet beacon there out with 10 mutas already. Also, if you tech switch to the fleet beacon for that upgrade you'll be behind in every other tech as well, meaning if they just say okay tech switch your in trouble. End of story.
The Pheonix upgrade is honestly a rip off, but that's what I think at least. The only way to fix Muta/Ling vs Toss is to either decrease splash damage or increase storm/Archon damage. But... That's what I think.

Zealo · Wed, 15th-Feb-2012, 1:20 AM

when does this patch actually kick in? i thought it would be with the new season but no patch when i logged in...

TABiggun · Wed, 15th-Feb-2012, 9:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maykid

Honestly... The Pheonix upgrade won't do anything because it will cost way too much, and by the time you get the fleet beacon there out with 10 mutas already. Also, if you tech switch to the fleet beacon for that upgrade you'll be behind in every other tech as well, meaning if they just say okay tech switch your in trouble. End of story.
The Pheonix upgrade is honestly a rip off, but that's what I think at least. The only way to fix Muta/Ling vs Toss is to either decrease splash damage or increase storm/Archon damage. But... That's what I think.

Fix muta/ling? Its not broken.

Quick Comments

seanious:

Trusty · Wed, 15th-Feb-2012, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

That's what I said right at the start about a Terran being disadvantaged by mules on gold now...

Not the biggest deal, but still.

You don't lose any minerals..... the minerals are still there.......

Just dropping on a gold or blue won't make a difference to your income rate.

It's not like the mule will deduct 7mins frmo the patch, and only give you 5 back lol...

faithHunter · Wed, 15th-Feb-2012, 6:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SQLTt.inFeZa

It will be better for mothership tech, not carrier. nobody goes carrier.... except for me.

Quick Comments

ZC.EvilSWAT:

Even the interceptors refuse to dock at this ship

NioXin · Mon, 27th-Feb-2012, 4:05 PM

THis change is obviously going to make the tournaments more enjoyable... although I been watch this MLG and the changes arent making an epic difference

[TA]LoSt · Tue, 28th-Feb-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trusty

You don't lose any minerals..... the minerals are still there.......

Just dropping on a gold or blue won't make a difference to your income rate.

It's not like the mule will deduct 7mins frmo the patch, and only give you 5 back lol...

I understand what you're saying. The point is that by using MULEs on the blue mineral patches instead of the gold, you prolong the availability of gold mineral patches in the game. Any SCV at a gold mineral base is theoretically 140% more effective than those SCVs mining blue minerals. By using MULEs on the gold you are not taking full advantage of this productivity increase with the SCVs, which you would need more of mining the blue patches if you'd like to achieve the same income.

Sure, when a gold base is completely mined out you will have the same amount of minerals in the end regardless of whether or not you popped MULEs on it or not, but that was the same as before this patch. The balance change effects the productivity of SCVs and their ability to gather 1.4x more per trip, if you put MULEs at a gold base it gets mined out faster and wastes the opportunity for the SCVs to utilise this increase.

By the way, this patch is LIVE ON SEA for anyone who has not patched-back since going on NA.

EDIT: Did they mess up EAPM and APM? EAPM is meant to be the old one (Effective Actions Per Minute) and APM is meant to be the one that counts every click (like it used to), however in all these replays I'm watching EAPM is around 200-300 and APM still sits at around ~70 early game?

Quick Comments

TAriiChard:

boss!

Peleus · Tue, 28th-Feb-2012, 11:48 AM

What you say is true lost, however golds are typically in more exposed locations, so it may be beneficial mining it out quicker even at the cost of worker efficiency. Not as clear cut as it seems.

breadfan · Tue, 28th-Feb-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

EDIT: Did they mess up EAPM and APM? EAPM is meant to be the old one (Effective Actions Per Minute) and APM is meant to be the one that counts every click (like it used to), however in all these replays I'm watching EAPM is around 200-300 and APM still sits at around ~70 early game?

I noticed this while playing on NA, it seems they did.