[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

This has been one of the hardest things to deal with as protoss when going stargate after seeing a spire, we have no way to know if its going to be 9 muta harass or mass mass muta, and over-spending on phoenix & an air upgrade can cause a roach switch to put you horrrrrrribly behind.

A fact which zerg could most definitely make use of.

[iRLpuku]

for all the terrans out there

Quick Comments

	ToRSmotPokingFish:	<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3
	TABottles:	♥
	Nemo:	Yeah, baby, Terran for the true ones haha :D
	dKiWi:

[TABottles]

Stop keeping me down Blizzard lol

Also, CPM.. !? Just keep it APM and call your slightly modified one Blizzard APM. Why would anyone rename the original.

EDIT: Oops I read it wrong - Must have been blinded by the Terran nerfs

[inFeZa]

I really like the phoenix idea. Hopefully i won't see stupid balls of 30+ mutas fly into my base and wreck every probe i have now, then trying to counter attack into a billion spines. edit= and no amount of cannons can stop a muta ball.

As for the MULES - Really should have gotten rid of the golds all together.

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	Asrathiel:	Yup yup yup
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	this!!

[iMSystem]

Originally Posted by SQLTt.inFeZa

As for the MULES - Really should have gotten rid of the golds all together.

Keeping the gold bases adds an element to the game about base decisions.
Now that Mules don't mine crazy amounts in the gold, taking the gold has the same mineral boost across all races.

Removing the gold bases really just makes taking bases quite stale, and linear, instead of adding a risk factor to it.

I hope the GSL re-adds gold bases after this patch is out, below is my reasoning.


Edit:
The following numbers used are MADE UP for clarity and getting a point across!
Now that I think about it, technically Terran still get the bonus out of it. Imagine, 6 patches of Gold, fully saturated (18workers) gives you 1000 mineral income.
Because the way Terran's Mules work (They can mine while a SCV is mining the same patch) means that Terran can still get a boost, but is it enough to worry about now that the mining amount has been reduced?
Example, 18workers gets 1000mineral income on the gold. Assuming 3 OC terran, 3 Mules adds 999 to the income amount.

Is that just how Mules are ment to work, buffing the Terran economy so that it is not an issue, or should gold bases still be removed completely?

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by System

Keeping the gold bases adds an element to the game about base decisions.
Now that Mules don't mine crazy amounts in the gold, taking the gold has the same mineral boost across all races.

Removing the gold bases really just makes taking bases quite stale, and linear, instead of adding a risk factor to it.

I hope the GSL re-adds gold bases after this patch is out, below is my reasoning.


Edit:
The following numbers used are MADE UP for clarity and getting a point across!
Now that I think about it, technically Terran still get the bonus out of it. Imagine, 6 patches of Gold, fully saturated (18workers) gives you 1000 mineral income.
Because the way Terran's Mules work (They can mine while a SCV is mining the same patch) means that Terran can still get a boost, but is it enough to worry about now that the mining amount has been reduced?
Example, 18workers gets 1000mineral income on the gold. Assuming 3 OC terran, 3 Mules adds 999 to the income amount.

Is that just how Mules are ment to work, buffing the Terran economy so that it is not an issue, or should gold bases still be removed completely?

Just makes me think that maybe terran won't MULE their gold now, as the gold patches will last longer if they MULE their main/nat which yields the same income anyway? Probably a smarter decision and leave the SCV's mining at the gold for as long as possible..

This is a pretty brutal patch for terran, I don't think the snipe needed to get nerfed THAT much, but I don't play zerg so I don't know how bad it actually is when playing.

[TAXanT]

Range comparison for Phoenixes (upgraded and normal)

http://i.imgur.com/xMJdA.jpg

[TAEdarus]

Originally Posted by SmotPokingFish

in all honesty i dont think the nerf was massively needed, terran needs APM to spam snipes, and with APM used on infestor/broodlord they could beat ghosts.

I think it was dippa who said it earlier, but take a look at the scroll-wheel method for snipes

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

Also, whilst it does need 'high apm' to spam snipe, i wouldn't considering holding shift and spamming click on one spot, then then the next spot, 5 times over with plenty of time to change between targets without it being inefficient an even remotely mechanically demanding task compared to things like marine splitting, FF+Storm combos, ling+bling+muta flanks, etc.

I don' think shift-sniping works properly anyways? Something to do with the cooldown timer on the ghosts?
I think if you have more than one selected they'll each fire off one but then wont fire another until their auto-attack command completes (they kill what they sniped at)?


Phoenix buff extremely interesting and I can see this being utilised, but how often and in what situations? Having that extra 2 range is useful for more than just mutas

[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by XanT

Range comparison for Phoenixes (upgraded and normal)

http://i.imgur.com/xMJdA.jpg

That's quite a nice difference

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by XanT

Range comparison for Phoenixes (upgraded and normal)

http://i.imgur.com/xMJdA.jpg

thats fair for a Fleet Bacon upgrade.
now i hope to see some more phoenix to carrier tranisitions

Quick Comments

TAXanT:

[Rageboredguy]

I must say i think blizzard are in the right area this time. Mules on gold change nobody is really upset about... But perhaps make the change to snipe against massive units? Ultras and Broodlords are the only 2 biological massive units around (that i can think of) this way it doesn't effect any other part of the game. And the phoenix change is a good one, mutas are way too good against toss, they are meant to be harassers, not fight the army straight up. At this rate phoenixes may become a must against zerg, but thats not a bad thing, there are always overlords to be popped and drones to be harassed.

But the main thing is how well blizz have done actually hitting the right areas, maybe not perfect changes but they have realized some of the major issues today.

Shocked me anyway..

[Xenomorph]

Forgive me if someone has already posted this but... Couldn't the phoneix range upgrade also have some effect on PvT late game? They would be a lot more effective against vikings, therefore allowing collosi to live+kill terran. The snipe nerf I agree with, I mean cmon guys the ghost counter both our tier 3 and infestor units...

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Agreed. It's a Colossi + Phoenixes buff to watch.

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by SmotPokingFish

time to make heads spin with some stats?

Before Patch:
Queen: 4snipes
Infestor: 2snipes
HT: 2snipes
DT: 3snipes
Ghost: 3snipes

After Patch:
Queen: 4snipes
Infestor: 2snipes
HT: 2snipes
DT: 3snipes
Ghost: 2snipes

so effectively, ghosts are just nerfed?

and archons are also psionic, hopefully this means snipe can hit biological and psionic (incl. non biological), if so i wont be so angry

EDIT: thx Dj added ghosts, if i missed anything else let me know

Edit: Sorry I'm blind

[ToRSmotPokingFish]

Originally Posted by Revenant

Didn't really read the other posts, but Queens are Psionic too =]

queens are in there...

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x5.Revenant:

Here, have a rep, for using the quote used on Terran, for Protoss :P

[iRLpuku]

Originally Posted by Xenomorph

The snipe nerf I agree with, I mean cmon guys the ghost counter both our tier 3 and infestor units...

the marine counters every unit in the zerg army.. i think blizz should consider removing the marine too. perhaps a nerf was needed. but probably to 30 to 35 damage should be the right number.

my fellow terrans.. time to put more time into practice and less discussion on balance issues.

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by SmotPokingFish

queens are in there...

Oppsie, didn't see the Psionic/Queen tag. My bad~

[VB_davidbloop]

As a Terran I'm not so much worried about the nerfs but more worried about the Pheonix buff. I can see them being used a lot to help stop the threat of vikings against colossus.

[ToRSmotPokingFish]

Originally Posted by davidbloop

As a Terran I'm not so much worried about the nerfs but more worried about the Pheonix buff. I can see them being used a lot to help stop the threat of vikings against colossus.

even harder for terran to beat lategame :/

[ToRsLeePiNz]

hmm PvP - War of the worlds? i think stargate phx range upgrade would help alot more now ....

[crAzerk]

What implications would the Phoenix buff have ? Does this mean they can literally kite Mutalisks forever now? (before they could already do so quite well, now even better?)

I like the MULE nerf, makes just a little bit less ridiculous (though still quite )