[breadfan]

Originally Posted by xpaperclip

The question is really, do they only want Barcraft in Seoul to stop, or everywhere.

If it is everywhere, then perhaps it doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a business perspective, except from the reduction in apparent viewer numbers. After all, the only hard statistics they can present sponsors are viewer numbers.

On the other hand, if they are only trying to stop Seoul Barcrafts, then it makes a lot of sense, because they want those people on site instead, especially for finals. I think I have read that watching GSL inside Korea is free, so I don't think it is a revenue raising exercise.

They don't charge admission to the Makdong studio and space is limited. They don't make advertising from the spectators either.

But if they ban barcrafts, why not ban spectators at their events? Same logic.

[Uglymutt]

Having bought a HQ stream because I went to a barcraft and saw how much better the premium stream was, I can say it's probably gaining a lot more exposure for GOM.

[inFeZa]

It's GOMTv's loss,
but what i think is that its more encouraging to go to the barcraft than to the live event in Seoul, and GOMTV wants people to attend the actual event instead so they fill out the place, i mean, how bad would it look if no1 is there and everyone is at a barcraft.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

excellent point!

[mGGDaedalus]

It doesn't make sense to ban them for ticket sales when it's free to attend the studio, and as far as I know it's free to watch GOMTV stream in Korea anyway. Maybe if they sold alcohol at the GOMTV studio more people would go there

[Daboo]

You can understand how it's an immediate loss for gomtv, but this important for e-sports to grow, and when it does, they'll probably benefit in the long run.

Wonder how TV channels show their numbers to sponsors? A lot of sport is watched in pub(understandable, why would you want to watch a game alone when you can watch them with friends..just more fun).

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Daboo

You can understand how it's an immediate loss for gomtv, but this important for e-sports to grow, and when it does, they'll probably benefit in the long run.

Wonder how TV channels show their numbers to sponsors? A lot of sport is watched in pub(understandable, why would you want to watch a game alone when you can watch them with friends..just more fun).

TV stations are in the opposite position - they are established and have their set timeslot advertising prices based on demand. They don't have to justify anything to advertisers (who aren't really 'sponsors').

[syfChadMann]

Hmmm.. While I agree, Barcrafts are great. whether to allow them or not should depend on the growth position of GOM. If they are growing, Barcrafts are a great opportunity to gain further exposure to their services. However, one could argue that everyone that attends BarCraft, usually are aware of GOM and the services they provide. Although, if GOM are in a plateau stage or decline in the viewership, BarCrafts are a detriment to their bottom line and I totally agree that the viewer ship should be via some sort of premium subscription for public broadcasts. Its only fair - the bars make alot of money from the BarCraft, and it costs them nothing. Usually a community member approaches the bar to host it, they also provide a laptop or two and someone with a HD subscription to GOM.

I think GOM needs to develop a public package for individuals that wish to host BarCrafts, make them pay a $1000 annual fee, but provided them with some cheerfuls and them, bangy stick things.... even get a shout out from Tastosis if your hosting an official BarCraft..

Also, that thread, is about a guy that hosts BarCrafts IN Seoul.. where, perhaps GOM has their own events?.. idk..

[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by Drgoose

when the NRL does it's advertising numbers, it takes into account average attendances at bars, etc. Gom can do the same. Certainly harder to do because of the international nature and because it's still emerging and therefore fluctuating, but having numbers that you can inflate to 'be on the safe side' is an advantage to gom when dealing with advertisers.

Surely they could, as others have said, have a package for public viewing type things, and request that the organisers report attendance numbers back to them...

Has anyone actually seem anything from GOM on the subject, or just the guy from TL gong 'oh I got an email'...

[foxmeep]

Originally Posted by Dox

Yeah it's a bit silly really. I don't think Gom realises that 10,000 people will attend barcraft events around the world for a code S final, then go home, and immediately buy a yearly subscription.

Exactly. And I'd be sure that at least 50% of people attending barcraft already have a subscription anyways. Maybe if GOMTV didn't have ridiculously overpriced subscription fees for a low quality stream that is unreliable at best, they'd have some grounds to stand on. But as it stands, GOMTV just being greedy as usual.

[cure]

Originally Posted by SQLTt.inFeZa

It's GOMTv's loss,
but what i think is that its more encouraging to go to the barcraft than to the live event in Seoul, and GOMTV wants people to attend the actual event instead so they fill out the place, i mean, how bad would it look if no1 is there and everyone is at a barcraft.

People would still go to the actual event to see the players though, don't forget that the players are celebrities in Korea.

[ikki]

Can someone link me to the official statement from GOM?
All I found was the TL link to some random in a forum saying he got an email from gom...

[crAzerk]

I don't think GOM has made any such announcement have they?
It seems like if they wanted to it would have to be a more definitive message, like saying bar craft IS banned, and before that they would have To go thru the respective legislative procedures.. Which is prob complicated as hell? -shrugs

[Frogmite]

They can stop us to make barcraft but they can't stop the cool dog.

[ikki]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

I don't think GOM has made any such announcement have they?
It seems like if they wanted to it would have to be a more definitive message, like saying bar craft IS banned, and before that they would have To go thru the respective legislative procedures.. Which is prob complicated as hell? -shrugs

Not that I can find, seems like something that would be impossible to police.
I remember ages on on tl a thread saying that blizz was going to license bars to play it blizz came out saying they wouldn't, it was about trademarking the name to protect it; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=268091

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Frogmite

They can stop us to make barcraft but they can't stop the cool dog.

Since people seem to love their dubstep and shit on pro streams... I propose a new initiative, Clubcraft. Now you can go clubbing and watch a massive projector streaming sc2 while grinding on the dance floor.

Quick Comments

	iMSystem:	'Shit'
	syfChadMann:	I guess System isn't coming... ClubCraft ftwe

[myth_au]

There are numerous reasons for this and alot of it has been summarised above.

I do want to add one last thing as well. The reason GomTV is against it is for commercial reasons and also from a LEGAL REASON.

Anyone who hosts a barcraft should be aware that they are breaching the license agreement given by gomtv when you sign up. It isnt for personal/private use, using it in a bar becomes public and you are one breaching the agreement and secondly you are infringing the copyright of the broadcast.

There are case law on this and i would be extremely cautious to anyone who considers hosting a barcraft without the appropriate license from GomTV. I would also be extremely cautious as the venue (bar) because they could be considered for secondary infringement. You need not look far then the free mp3 downloads case in australia.

Any bar, food court, shopping centres etc that play music and broadcast always pays some license/royalty fee to someone (usually APRA/AMCOS for music). Otherwise they would be sued for infringement.

South Korea is against infringement and counterfeiting big time. When you got to korea and you have to till out a declaration saying you have no goods that infringement any IP.

So yea. Also Australia is also usually very owners of IP. again lots of technology cases out there now.

[Frogmite]

Actually for the Barcraft we did in Singapore we were watching MLG.

I promise it's my last meme

[ikki]

Originally Posted by myth_au

There are numerous reasons for this and alot of it has been summarised above.

I do want to add one last thing as well. The reason GomTV is against it is for commercial reasons and also from a LEGAL REASON.

Anyone who hosts a barcraft should be aware that they are breaching the license agreement given by gomtv when you sign up. It isnt for personal/private use, using it in a bar becomes public and you are one breaching the agreement and secondly you are infringing the copyright of the broadcast.

There are case law on this and i would be extremely cautious to anyone who considers hosting a barcraft without the appropriate license from GomTV. I would also be extremely cautious as the venue (bar) because they could be considered for secondary infringement. You need not look far then the free mp3 downloads case in australia.

Any bar, food court, shopping centres etc that play music and broadcast always pays some license/royalty fee to someone (usually APRA/AMCOS for music). Otherwise they would be sued for infringement.

South Korea is against infringement and counterfeiting big time. When you got to korea and you have to till out a declaration saying you have no goods that infringement any IP.

So yea. Also Australia is also usually very owners of IP. again lots of technology cases out there now.

They're only asking not to show the gomtv.net version of the stream, AKA the english stream, because SC2 is rated 18+ in Korea.
To even stream the GSL, they have to use the 12+ version, reduced violence and gore effects, etc. So if the korean goverment hears that koreans can watch the english stream in Korea in all its bloody glory, they'll force GOM to IP ban korea for the english and slap a heavy fine.


@myth: Can you link to the law case ? Or where people get the license from gom for barcraft?

[myth_au]

First thing, this is not legal advice.

Cases relating to public venue and authorising copyright infringement see Australasian Performing Right Assn Ltd v Miles [1962] NSWR 405. Pretty much this cases was about playing music without a lincense at a hall.

The free mp3 case is the cooper case Universal Music Australia Pty Ltd v Cooper [2005] FCA 972.

There is currently proceedings in the Federal Court relating online streaming, which is interesting hoping the judgment is out this year (most likely at the end).

GOMTV's terms and condtions are here http://www.gomtv.net/support/terms.gom

I havent read or reviwed the t&c in great detail but i havent seen any compnay give redtribution rights away for free. usually the licenes are for private use. Same as when you buy a DVD or music cd. its for private use.

[ikki]

Originally Posted by myth_au

I havent read or reviwed the t&c.

Can you review something you haven't read? tldr jkjk

I'll keep my mouth shut till I hear something from official from gom.