[ToRXypha]

I'm looking for help regarding queens and hatches beyond 3 bases and maybe a little discussion on the pros and cons.

Something I noticed while watching the complete baller that is PiG is that he had 3 paired hatches with a queen even after 4th and 5th bases were taken, he had not specifically included them in the hotkeys for his inject cycle.

I currently make a queen for every hatch, but I'm now questioning is that too much, it takes a decent amount of supply up for a start (Say 7 hatches I have 7 queens). Would it be more efficient to only have 4 queens, 3 with paired hatches, 4th for creep and help defending drops and voidrays if needed. and instead make more macro hatches where needed (Also allowing more forgiveness if you miss the injects by injecting the macro hatch with excess energy if you get it)

Thanks

[Rockstar]

You can manually inject your macro hatch in ur main when u 44v, just click v click.. so really you're getting 4 injects. If you have more bases it's probably a good idea having a queen there just for the added security against drops or whatever plus if u lose a queen at another base you can always substitute it with another queen without having to remake one.

just my opinion. It also comes down to what units you're making... Obviously in late game you need a lot less larvae than early game, dependant on your playstyle of course.. Example: You're making high cost high supply units over units like lings/banes and even roach..

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

You could just go mass Queen with Roaches and Nydus their main like Spanishiwa.

[AsylumofSouls]

Originally Posted by Bugalugs McScruffin

You could just go mass Queen with Roaches and Nydus their main like Spanishiwa.

Day9 - Single handedly destroying the "meta-game"

Quick Comments

Bugalugs McScruffin:

Roach/Queen, if you can keep up your injects is scary. Creep is a must though.

[FaDeBadger]

I use the same hotkeys as PiG, I have a queen and it's hatch number 4-7, but add the macro hatch and its queen to which base I put it at. So if it's in the main then hotkey 4 becomes 2 queens and 2 hatches. That way in theory I can have up to 8 or so hatches with queens. Although I usually don't go higher than 5.

Quick Comments

TcaTX:

What he said. :)

[TASlowHands]

I have queens on 6 7 and 8 bound to a hatch, I just stick a macro hatch next to each one usually and maybe another queen so that I get 6 injected hatches instead of 3, when it hit 66v i just shift que to inject the macro hatch or select the other queen quickly

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by SlowHands

I have queens on 6 7 and 8 bound to a hatch, I just stick a macro hatch next to each one usually and maybe another queen so that I get 6 injected hatches instead of 3, when it hit 66v i just shift que to inject the macro hatch or select the other queen quickly

Do you have issues with moving your entire hand half way across the screen? Why do you have so many dead hotkeys before your hatches?? surely you don't use them all?

[TABjornbrandr]

I used to have a queen for every base, but nowadays I stop after 3 queens. If you'e going extremely ling heavy, a fourth might be worthwhile, but by that point you can easily afford a second or third macro hatch.
Army 1-4, Hatcheries 5, Main/Queen 6, Nat/Queen 7, Third/Queen 8, Spire 9, Evolution Chambers 0
Works for me.

[FaDeBadger]

Oh, I'd also like to mention I have control group 8 rebound to space bar which I have all my hatches on.

[mGGDaedalus]

Honestly, I doubt you'll need more than 3 constantly injecting queens in most cases as long as you have enough hatcheries (sometimes I'll go four with really ling heavy styles), and if you don't have perfect injects like the rest of us mere mortals, you can always throw up macro hatcheries nearby your queens so you can spend built up energy.

Quick Comments

	ToRXypha:	Thanks, this is exactly what I was thinking and does seem like a much better option
	x5_dot:	agree :)

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Originally Posted by AsylumofSouls

Day9 - Single handedly destroying the "meta-game"

I would call it rebuilding the meta-game. I am seriously tempted to try Roach/Queen. It seems like it could be especially nasty, even without the Nydus. Creep would be a must though.

[TASlowHands]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Do you have issues with moving your entire hand half way across the screen? Why do you have so many dead hotkeys before your hatches?? surely you don't use them all?

All my hatches are on 5 and my creep queen is on 4. 1 2 3 is for army. I guess my hands are big enough to go to 8 fine. I dont really like using 9 and 0 though so I rebound 0. I should rebind 9 too but I would prob never use it

[Nemo]

Many Zerg top players have only 3 injecting queens. If they make 1 or 2 more it's for creep, early air defense, they usually participate in ground defense too and often got killed by the time the army is maxed. At the end you could have 3 macro hatches with your 3 injecting queens that allow you to inject twice less often and that's what happens end game when you're very busy with combats and reorganizing your drone repartition between bases.

Then let's say you have 5 bases, and so 8 hatcheries, 6 of them injected half the time. That should be enough larvae.

[ToRXypha]

Yeah in the past I would have only one macro hatch but a queen at every base and a queen at the macro, so very late game I'm probably spreading my APM thin, I will give more macro hatches a go. was probably ok when I could get away with A moving an army then injecting coming back to the army and so on, but as I've gotten higher MMR I really need more apm to army control as the game progresses. I guess the other benefit is my army will produce from a much more localized point rather then dribbling in from all corners of the map.

[Reddevils]

what i do, is i group all my hatches on 4 and all my inject wueens on 5(creep quens on 6 too) and i have rebound the base cycle key(back space method) to the ` key because my hand werent fast enough to go to back space, and i press 5 to select my queens and the ` and inject through each base

[TcaTX]

I use pigs inject style too. I don't get a queen for my fourth, I get a 4 queen for my my main base hatchery and add him to my 4th control group So it becomes 44vv and both queens inject there nearest hatcheries.

If you or anyone has bad injects you can skip the queen for the macro hatcheries and use the existing queens energy to inject both using the "shift" cue command eg. 44"shift"vv to cue injects. This is great for late game when there is almost always excess energy on queens.

[aLtShortizz]

Interesting, i nv thought of having queenless hatches.

Its always 1 queen per hatch for me lol.

[PiG]

yeah I think absolute max queens I get to is usually about 6 or 7. This is either in ZvZ vs mutas for helping defend and after a set amount of time they don't really serve much of a purpose. More importantly is in ZvT when having a 2nd queen in your main helps alot against drops, 4+ transfuses can negate ALOT of drop damage or 2 queens killing medivac so small squad of lingbane is enough. I might have a 2nd queen at my 3rd or 4th base also (whichever is more likely to get dropped) aswell as a creep spreader. so 1 queen for 3-4 hatches, usually just 3. 1 spreading creep and 1-2 support queens to shore up defense DRG style.

A note on lategame. If you reach a skill-level where you are comfortable at 80 or so drones with solid macro but sometimes still lose games vs only 3 base P or T then you need to consider taking your macro to the next level. This doesn't take more queens what it takes is MORE HATCHERIES. While having some near your bases to use extra queen energy on is great, it's time consuming and an extra thing you only do if the pressure eases off ingame. The real goal is to just have them produce larvae on their own. 3 larva every 45 seconds as opposed to a queen making 4 every 40 seconds doesn't sound that fast but it takes no macro activity so is great!

So next time you're wanting to tech tier 3 and go super macro mode try droning to 100-110 drones on 5 base. Build 10 macro hatcheries and then build a fat spine wall (or spines at each base vs drops). From here you can do something like a big Broodlord push straight into ultra-ling-bane remax in a matter of seconds and have the bank and larvae to do so. Many people are very surprised by just how useful mass ling is in the lategame of all matchups, but can never experiment with it cos not enough larvae!

Quick Comments

	Reere:	mind blown~
	faithHunter:	TLO went Mass Lings once...

[Poebes]

If you have decent inject timings 3 or 4 is good enough. If your macro is not that good though you might need a couple more.

[Kluey]

You don't need more than 4 injected hatcheries. That being said, you only really need 3-5 queens. Get 3 if you suck at injecting and the energy builds up. One queen can manage two hatcheries like that. Get 4 if you have good injects and there is no energy build up. Get 5 if you want creep spread.