[Nemo]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

Sorry that I haven't watched your vod nemo, and you may have raised more issues, but I suppose on the flip side of things if it isn't obvious for a first watch / examination perhaps we're looking for things a bit too hard.

I fact no. I found that it's sometimes little things that can give away the most the Map Hacking.

Yes you missed 3 other points, the second of them being the most evident sign of Map Hack for me.

• The first is him sending his stalker behind his Natural while he couldn't know there was a SCV coming in that direction.
• The second is the way he reposition his 2 zealots an 1 stalker when Timber does a fake push with 2 marauder he doesn't see at all.
• The third point is about how his forward drone act when pushing. In fact it's normal movement. It gives away the fact that retreating his drone in game 2 was indeed a evidence of Map Hack because completely unusual.

And the selection of units you saw is very suspect too. In fact I'm convinced after seing the 4 games and being able to see 3 super suspect games by all aspects and one where it's completely obvious by so many signs he's not hacking.


Try again to watch my Vod. You will understand why I'm so convinced. Anyway, it seems nobody cared to watch it because there is no comment. It's a shame but I understand that the dethgate has taken all the time of everyone. The sound is stuttering a bit but I'm still understandable I think.

I will make an usual Screenshot analysis tomorrow then.

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

P.s. If it is a hack, i don't think it's a map hack, I think it's a minimap hack. Any suspect things raised so far could be shown by being able to see his units on the minimap, with broad general unit movements apparent. It doesn't seem as though he is actually looking through the map however because his camera movements are always located within his base, not looking over fog of war, etc.

I confirm, he never looks into the fog of war. So I confirm it's only informations on the minimap that he can use, whether or not it's complete Map Hack. Evets wasn't looking in the FoW too but it was still confirmed Map Hack. It's just that it is more easy to restrain to look where you're not suppose to see. It's harder not to take into account at all or discretely what you are forced to see on the Minimap.

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Nemo

[*]The third point is about how his forward drone act when pushing. In fact it's normal movement. It gives away the fact that retreating his drone in game 2 was indeed a evidence of Map Hack because completely unusual.

So just to clarify, you're saying this is normal behaviour, meaning that in the earlier game it is an increase chance of him hacking because he does something different?

But then in the same line you're saying that earlier he is doing different things that indicate him hacking this game? (i.e. scouting for SCV's which I don't think is unreasonable).

Just seems a bit conflicting where at least it appears your saying "This is what behaviour looks like without hacks so the other games are more suspicious because he didn't do the same", then saying in the same breath that he's not acting normally with other aspects of the game, so it's evidence for hacking.

[xGKingdelete]

watching the VOD

For finding the SCV, I think that was just a coincidence. He knew the SCV had either returned home, or was hiding around for secondary scouting. So it was a good idea to check around his base for the SCV, and he did that as soon as possible (he built the nexus, and straight away sent the stalker to scout around).

I agree with the other things, though (I think, it's really hard to understand with the video stutter). I just find it really suspicious that he's playing blind in all of these games, no secondary scouts, no watchtowers, etc.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

So just to clarify, you're saying this is normal behaviour, meaning that in the earlier game it is an increase chance of him hacking because he does something different?

Exactly.

But then in the same line you're saying that earlier he is doing different things that indicate him hacking this game? (i.e. scouting for SCV's which I don't think is unreasonable).

Yes, The only time he scouts in this game is when there is something useful to find. In the game N°3 (when he did not map hacked), he was scouting permanently and often without finding anything.

Just seems a bit conflicting where at least it appears your saying "This is what behaviour looks like without hacks so the other games are more suspicious because he didn't do the same", then saying in the same breath that he's not acting normally with other aspects of the game, so it's evidence for hacking.

Humm, maybe my English betrayed me, I don't have the impression that I wanted to say that.

I think :

• When he Map hack => doesn't scout at all or is being super lucky with his only scout (stalker)
• When he doesn't Map Hack => He scout permanently and just have standard luck.
• Normal attitude when sending forward drone = Put Pylon and go forward with the drone.
  • Game 2 (MH): His drone is about to be attacked by timber army (but he doesn't see it in his vision) : He backs it instead of going forward.
  • Game 4 (MH): His drone is not going to be attacked this time and go forward (as normal).
  • So in game 2 he knew for sure he was going to be attacked without having the "normal" vision of it => Stronger evidence of Map hack

Edit : My posted didn't make sense, I edited it. Did it yesterday just before going to bed.

[Nemo]

pRoTimber vs Ghost

League :
Map : Xel'Naga Caverns
Length : 13min19
Version 1.4.2
Replay: http://www.sc2sea.com/attachment.php...7&d=1325677151

Replay Analysis

It's the same game as the VoD a few posts ahead. As the sound quality is not good, I will make some screenshot to explain the points that are interesting considering the Map Hacking inquiry:

• 4:49 : He has not seen the SCV comingin the viciny of his base and still send the Stalker behind at the exact time the SCV is sent behind the base. As it is the only time in the game where he actually scout. I find this very suspect that he has the "luck" to fall on the SCV.

• 5:29: He prepares his units as to receive a attack by the left, the normal route of a attack on that map (direct). Legit. Let's forget it's again at the right time of Timber push with 2 Marauders on the normal route ... But don't forget the Chrono of the sentry too at the exact right time.

• 5:51 : He then leaves his units and suddenly reorganizes them to receive a attack by the right without seing anything. When we see everyone's view, we see that Timber hve rerouted his Marauders to push by the right in the same time. For me that's a evidence of Map Hack. At this point of the inquiry, I don't believe anymore at so many insane luck or coincidence anymore ...

• 8:32 : Timber is on the point of arriving at Ghost base. Units of Ghost are not selected. He is attending to his base. He selected his army 2 times in the last 30 sec less than 1 sec.

• 8:35 : Still seing nothing and Timber army just on the verge of engaging, Ghost select all his army and do nothing with them until Timber engages.

• 10:49 : This time the forward probe go ahead after making his pylon and don't retreat to his army. It's the normal behaviour. That enlighten the fact that in game 2, he did retreated it because it was threatened by Timber army without having any vision on this ennemy army.

My own conclusion (and it's only a opinion)

Se 2 posts ahead. For me the 4 games show that he map hacked in 3 of them and didn't in the game number 3.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	thanks for the analysis nemo!
	pRoTimber:	ty and apth for your time and effort to analyze the game, pointed out some stuffs that i didnt even notice
	SmirkToT:	since he's toss I havent realized he's a cheater haha