[crAzerk]

Lol Peleus! The moment i read what you said I thought back about the Ret show match haha. I recall Yoon being the only one taking a game off him.
Would definitely love to see another such show match ^^

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

Lol Peleus! The moment i read what you said I thought back about the Ret show match haha. I recall Yoon being the only one taking a game off him.
Would definitely love to see another such show match ^^

If I recall correctly Yoon won that game cause Lost Temple was imba for Terran. He got a/some tanks on that ledge and Ret just left.

[breadfan]

I think the buy in idea is a great one - every major tournament out there you have to pay to register (MLG is $70, for example). I think the issue that crAzerk points out if if it's every second week - you take some of the lustre of a one off event away when you do it every 2nd week - it becomes just another weekly tourney.

I think less frequent, and bigger events are the way to go. And perhaps the community could sponsor a few top invites - why make HuK pay to play in the event when him being there will crank up the exposure so much?

I may also be dreaming, but to be honest I would love to see one big SEA tournament at some point in the year, that is generally attended by all of the SEA's top talent. Imagine the ACL finals at the end of the year, but with participants travelling from NZ, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, the Phillipines, etc

Getting everyone under one roof for a weekend tournament might be the sort of thing we could justify bringing big names to, if it's going to be more effective than going to them

However, I am still absolutely of the opinion that more SEA players need to be playing overseas. There are some huge tournaments, and they are huge for a reason. It's the ideal stage for one of our brightest stars to go over and play out of his skin and end up playing vs Idra in the finals.

[Peleus]

Would people be pissed if I felt out some top players to see if they were interested in this? (i.e. Col.Catz or something) or would people prefer it if official admins sorted it out?

[Cordance]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

Would people be pissed if I felt out some top players to see if they were interested in this? (i.e. Col.Catz or something) or would people prefer it if official admins sorted it out?

I speak from past events, generally speaking if you present an idea to the website and people like it. Then you are able to make it happen with minimal extra load on the admins of the site they are more than happy to let you run with your idea. Try not to make it clash with anything already existing.

[Cordance]

Peleus. The main reasons most of the older tourneys are for SEA residents is because quite literally it was our money going into the prize pool. Community donations supplied by people who felt they could or should donate for the entertainment. Now we are actually getting some non individual funds with which to use for tournaments we are opening up more "world" competitions. To put it simply the community of SEA was not willing to gather money that was going to leave our community as we have small enough resources to draw on already.

The main point is its the sponsor who picks their audience up until recently most of the prize money has come from single people. These people are from SEA they are donating too SC2SEA.com because they like what comes from SC2SEA.com. They where not donating to SC2SEA because they wanted to see Koreans or North Americans play thats why they where buying Gomtv/MLG tickets. Times are changing as company sponsors arrive but we want to keep our community what made it great, which is a close nit helpful community hence why we have our internal and external competitions.

Probably another post in itself ...

+ [sponsorship ...] +

The other issue is most SEA companies are not global and based out of SEA. They are based else where with an SEA branch. A lot of companies in SEA dont even reach the whole SEA market given we are split into so many nations with mostly small populations. The SEA companies are only interested in advertising to SEA people (or their own nation) which is the smaller percentage when it comes to the cast of "world event"
When working out if advertisement(sponsorship) was worth the cost they will look at clients and target audience. Toy commercials aim at children shows. Car commercials aim at Car racing. What we as a gaming community should look at is what do we spend our money on. Gaming peripherals (mice/keyboards) is one hence why TTesports is willing to invest in the market. Other things we should be looking at trying to milk sponsors out of are things like tablets/mobile phones, internet providers even single player game market (most SC2 plays do touch other games, I use too until I took an arrow to the knee). We need to look at more global advertising and going why not ask for 1000 bucks which isnt even a blip on the radar for a major company advertisement budget (I had no idea who FXO where till they started events is a prime example).

Thats my donation to this thread. Now no one is stopping people from donating to SEA and asking for global competition like nirvAnA just had happen. Get out there and get sponsors or become one yourself.

[QEDMazaire]

The Scene needs major sponsor/money. What SEA lacks is a big sponsor, you look at most major tournaments. They have loads of money running though, the great professional streams and a well setup and run tournament. I love the fact that we have a community run and paid for tournaments but if we want to get ourselves known on the big stage, we are defiantly going to have to go very commercial.

Needs a big bi annual tournament. open invite style. I mean if there was one run in a major city (alternating) I would consider travelling as far as Brisbane or Melbourne (from Canberra) provided it was worth my time.

I just have no idea who would organise such a thing, its something i feel a community can't do it without business investment/creation of business. Take MLG for example the make all of their money running a tour of the USA inviting the very best players from around the world to gain a big viewer audience.

tl;dr: totally viable but its going to have to turn into a business and its not something a community can sustain form a charitable point of view.

[Peleus]

Mazaire -
I think big tournaments are great, lead to lots of exposure, and everyone wins. As you point out however they also require lots of resources, sponsors time and effort to undertake. As a result a lot of the time they aren't really feasible (although we certainly HAVE had them, i.e. Dox cup) in the SEA scene's situation. Besides that fact, they are great at creating a big splash for 2-3 weeks, however it doesn't do huge amounts for our community for the rest of the year when the hype dies down.

As a result, I suppose one of the things focused on in this thread is idea's floating around of how we can get high viewer streams on a semi regular basis without dumping a heap of money into prizes. This can lead to the end goal of big tournaments, but we need to figure out the multiple steps in between to do it.

It's a tough question, and I think we'll need originality and something different to set ourselves apart, but if we wish to go it's something we should aim for.

I.e. An idea to throw around is the popularity of TL Attacks, where they have a guest star doing different things. Different showmatches with different personalities against SEA superstars each week would be pretty cool, and something different from the regular tournaments that take place quite often.

[QEDMazaire]

Originally Posted by PeleusSPR

Mazaire -
I think big tournaments are great, lead to lots of exposure, and everyone wins. As you point out however they also require lots of resources, sponsors time and effort to undertake. As a result a lot of the time they aren't really feasible (although we certainly HAVE had them, i.e. Dox cup) in the SEA scene's situation. Besides that fact, they are great at creating a big splash for 2-3 weeks, however it doesn't do huge amounts for our community for the rest of the year when the hype dies down.

As a result, I suppose one of the things focused on in this thread is idea's floating around of how we can get high viewer streams on a semi regular basis without dumping a heap of money into prizes. This can lead to the end goal of big tournaments, but we need to figure out the multiple steps in between to do it.

It's a tough question, and I think we'll need originality and something different to set ourselves apart, but if we wish to go it's something we should aim for.

I.e. An idea to throw around is the popularity of TL Attacks, where they have a guest star doing different things. Different showmatches with different personalities against SEA superstars each week would be pretty cool, and something different from the regular tournaments that take place quite often.

just as a question (as i don't know) What major streamed LANs have there been that have been held in SEA? and what was the initial prize pool? who sponsored the tournament?

Because there are heaps of tournaments that have a very boring format, its just that it is well marketed with smart people behind the scenes. I would love to see another format like the IPL (was it IEM?) fight club with sheth and a few other pros duke-ing it out for hours at a time. i think originality will set us apart. but you can have all the creativity in the world, its just if its not well promoted especially in SEA (since we are such a small market) it can quite easily be a very unrewarding experience.

Thats just my two cents. i guess i think form this angle as i have worked in sales for the majority of my career

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Mazaire

just as a question (as i don't know) What major streamed LANs have there been that have been held in SEA? and what was the initial prize pool? who sponsored the tournament?

LANs? None that I'm aware of. As far as I know the biggest tournament for SEA has been the Dox Cup #2 (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=283384) but I'm no expert on the subject and I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.

[Gnemest]

Very nice write up. Having read this, I will do try even harder to get more friends to play SC2, give support to our regional heroes and what not! GO SEA! GO sc2sea.com!

[Paroxysm]

Perhaps it is time for us to begin talking to companies such as EB Games, FragLabs, Drop Bear Gamin, Red Bull and V (just to name a few) that could potentially profit from having such a stance towards sponsoring the SEA gaming scene?

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Paroxysm

Perhaps it is time for us to begin talking to companies such as EB Games, FragLabs, Drop Bear Gamin, Red Bull and V (just to name a few) that could potentially profit from having such a stance towards sponsoring the SEA gaming scene?

Not sure that seeking sponsors is necessarily the right move for now. I mean we have sponsors, and to be honest I think what we have is perfect for where we are at this point in time.

You don't fuel growth through sponsors - use growth to gain sponsors. I am totally hoping that one day a lot of businesses are going to want to get involved in eSports through sponsorship, but it's not the magic bullet or whatever. That's stage 2.

Not to mention, it's still early days for individually sponsored SEA players. Look at PiG. He hasn't even had time to play in a major tournament yet under his sponsor banner. (Not to put pressure on him, or anyone else like that) there's probably a bit interest in how this sort of endeavor turns out. Rather than go crazy hunting sponsors, we should support the ones we have and make sure that instead of having them all fighting over the current field, we develop it into something much larger, where there is room for these other sponsors

[xpaperclip]

I think any attempt at trying to replicate the scale of the competitive NA scene in one big go here is doomed to failure, as the size market is simply too small and much too geographically separated (a comparatively small player base spread across a great number of timezones and countries!). We also have nowhere near the commercial power.

So, for the scene to grow, smaller steps are necessary, and to do that of course we need to develop local players, as well as increase international interest and player notability.

+ [Developing local players] +

Developing local players
'Internal events' of course do the first, and we already have a healthy number of these. However, when the Koreans started joining CO and Masters Cup, a simliar argument was raised as to whether or not this was beneficial.

On one side was the argument that SEA wasn't good enough to compete with them and essentially they were just draining resources that local pros could be using to support themselves. On the other hand, bringing in talent from elsewhere forces the local standard to go up.

The addition of the SEA server activity requirement coupled with the interleaving of residency-restricted and open tournaments I think is a healthy mix, the server is improved by the presence of outside talent, but the prizepool is still somewhat protected.

From this perspective, I don't know if there is a whole lot more that can be done, apart from more sponsorship. Which of course, is difficult to achieve without international interest. I feel the local base is too small to rely on just local interest. The return on sponsorship is eyes, and there just aren't enough of them here.

+ [Developing international interest] +

Developing international interest
The tough one. SEA has a reputation for being the worst server and being talentless. Glade advancing to the playoffs at WCG was great, but unfortunately, it was only Glade. SEA desparately needs to have another player have a breakout performance on the international stage*. Unfortunately, we don't appear to have the sponsorship capability to send players out. The fact that all 8 potential qualifiers for IEM Kiev turned down the spot is a really sad situation.

* Tastosis praising Rossi at IPL4 Pacific Qualifiers was another instance which could have been really good for SEA if not for all the other stuff that happened there.

Which means we have to take smaller steps and develop interest in our scene online, by way of streamed events. What sucks for SEA is that our timezone is so different from where most of the population is, PLUS we overlap with Korea which means GSL gets in the way. People are going to stay up and watch GSL but not some SEA event they have never heard of.

When SEACL was announced and we had the rigmarole of the format discussion, the what is a team discussion, etc., I said in chat that I thought the problem was the goal was unclear as to whether the event was designed to (i) showcase SEA to the world, (a) develop the community, (1) develop the pro-scene, and in what order of priority (hence why I used different numbering schemes for each item).

Showcasing SEA to the world is a great idea but is extremely hard. It's pretty obvious that I subscribe to the idea that TL is the centre of all things SC in the English-speaking world, and the majority of drop-in viewership comes from the featured streamers list. There is also quite a bit of empirical evidence to support this.

Masters Cup was the event which convinced me this was the case. By being the only active event, people dropped in because there was nothing else on, and they stayed! The fact that Dox Cup 2 lost its TL event for the championship bracket was a huge shame.

This is the reason why I feel some strategic scheduling is needed for some of the showcase events to get viewers in. Yes, of course we have to make it work with the locals first since the vast majority of players are part-time and all the admins are volunteers who do a great job for basically nothing (and sometimes less) in return. However, we may be able to use our timezone disadvantage to fill a niche and build it from there.

+ [Aside: a note about LANs] +

Aside: a note about LANs
I feel having a face to go with the ID is invaluable in improving recognition, and makes the connection to the players much more real. LANs of course are meant to make that happen.

However, while I'm extremely excited about what ACL is going to show us this year, so far, "LAN" (in Australia at least) has more or less meant "LAN cafe". Not exactly the most interesting thing to look at. Coupled with the crappy infrastructure which makes streaming difficult if not impossible, LANs have not really been the best events to show off SEA so far.

tl;dr, Main new point: I think we need to be more strategic with scheduling to get more international interest before we can think about large-scale sponsorship.

Quick Comments

Volition:

great thoughts! Filling a niche is something to consider!

[Eddie]

Lot of good discussion and creative ideas in this thread!

Growing the SEA sc2 and esports in general is a passion of mine, and i agree with both paths of thought.

We need events for our own players to prove themselves against each other, and we need events where our top players, or an up and comer, can show their stuff against world class players, and gain greater exposure for themselves, and SEA in general.

This is what we are trying to do with the Masters Cup. Non SEA players can join 1/3 months.

Our first 'open' event since the restructure is actually next Sunday. Uncertain of the best way to proceed, set a cap on the number of foreigners, unlimited numbers join, split money between SEA/Other, standard 1/2/3, etc. We'll try and work through it to find the best solution for all. We also realise that money going outside of SEA might not align with our sponsors, yet as i stated above, i believe it is a path we must take sometimes to gain or try for that extra exposure.

[Paroxysm]

Sorry for the poor explanation, what I meant was:

Perhaps it is time for us to begin talking to companies that could potentially profit from having an impact on the development of the eSports scene, and eventually taking upon a much larger role in the scene.

For instance, a $100 tournament sponsor through sc2sea, or through cityhunter or elysium gaming cafe. This will all steamroll into a much larger phenomenon, and fuel interest in the community. I don't mean sponsors that will 'instantly' make the scene big. But I hope that helps to clarify what I was meaning.

[breadfan]

Maybe we need to formalise some of this stuff for community action.

There are so many paths to take. Maybe we need to get a few people working on all the different ideas, present them to the community and people can choose what sort of priorities they want in place

[Peleus]

.... or even if it isn't a community based decision (I respect that admins sponsors etc have put in a lot more time towards this site than members, which isn't disrespectful at all to anyone) and an admin decision then announce what it is so we can help out

One request that I think would be pretty easy to implement is a clean symbol or marking in the upcoming events listing that indicates whether it's a SEA only event or an open event (perhaps an Australia flag icon on SEA only, Globe icon on open events - and yes Australian flag cause we're the best..... ) Seriously though that would at least make it nice and easy for everyone to identify which events have what entry requirements.

As an extra special request I personally think it's a little busy with signup / info links in there also, would love for it to be a little more like TL's where it's just a simple list with a date next to it (instead of hours until) and the icon discussed above (http://imgur.com/Al9c9). The link can contain all the info needed, but hey I don't want to request changes to everything :P Icon would be a cool start.

[Paroxysm]

Perhaps if we used a logo of the SEAhorse?

[breadfan]

Yeah don't get into the trap of thinking that SEA = Australia Peleus