[Nemo]

Well, giving time to time was indeed what to do. Let's remember it next time it happens.

I watched the Timber replay yesterday and made many screenshots I intended to post. I had still no clear conclusion about it apart from one move super super suspect (counter of the doom drop before seeing it). Even the 25min "Muta intercept" seemed quite legit when watching it very closely. All that to say it's uneasy to spot Map Hack from a good player. Only multiple replay and very precise analysis can show it.

Evets has admitted cheating. Frankly it's doubtful he has done it once only as he says and analyze of Muse replay might be useful to do. I will check them when I have some time. It's now less urgent anyway. I will do this not to put Evets head even deeper in the mud but to respect Muse call.

Let all remember that Muse then Timber showed a lot of courage in putting the subject on the table. You put yourself at great "reputation" risk when exposing a respected member of the community, just remember the past ...

So I would like to thanks you both for having the courage to post the replays and make the accusation. Big, big props to you, the community owes you a lot.

Now for Evets. I had and still have a very good opinion of him and consider him as a friend. We all have done bad things in our lives, things we are ashamed of. So I won't throw him the first rock. I prefer 100 times someone who cheats and admits it than someone who cheats and doesn't admit it and then lets all his friends who defend him look bad. Of course I prefer 100 times the guy that doesn't cheat at all in the first place ...

That being said, there must be of course official punishment. He has to "pay the price to the society" as part of redeeming himself.

As Maynarde said, there must be punishment by the clan and punishment by the community. It might be a common punishment.

I think Meatex, leader of Fade, and Nirvana, the closer we have to a community leader, must discuss it and decide an appropriate set of punishments. My ideas on the subject:

• Don't be too harsh. That's only a game after all.
• No life ban, no more (an no less) than 1 or 2 month ban. We need Evets in this community.
• Ban him from competition but not from the site. He needs to be able to talk to us. He never behaved badly here.
• I like community work as punishment. He could make the 50% of the Replay analysis for example for a month (I need some help there), or write some article for TGM or refresh some. Working for others is the best redeeming action you can think of.

As usual, it's only my opinion on the moment, I keep my mind open to other's ideas.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	perfect
	EXCL:
	Zealo:	very reasonable
	wolf:
	asdfSchnitzel:
	Synizta:	Nemo keeping the clamness around ^.^

[Meatex]

A statement from the sc2sea team, Clan FaDe and EvetS is coming in due time
Just so you know that there is movement on this issue

[nirvAnA]

Sequoia played sheepy on his smurf. He watched the replay. Seq had 2 groups of blink stalkers and did a multi prong attack. His player camera was looking at just one area while BOTH groups were being controlled with perfect blink micro simultaneously. He doesn't even attempt to hide it, he just blatantly hacks. I've heard this from many sources including jazbas etc whos integrity and judgement i don't doubt.

---

Official Stance on map hacking:

And yes, it is exactly as what Maynade has said.

• The clan decides the player's future in their clan.
• Blizzard decides the future of his account.
• SC2SEA decides if he is able to continue participating in SC2sea tournaments.

Had a discussion with the team and we felt a standard 3 month ban from all tournaments including SEACL #2 would be adequate punishment for the "standard maphacker", but not a complete site/account ban from the forums. We are not an inflexible bureaucratic organisation and will take each individual case into account. Bearing in mind evets history of being a good poster/streamer and well mannered and liked in the community, as well as coming out to admit it, this sentence would probably be reduced to a minimum 2 month site ban for all our tournaments. Therefore he can only play again in our tournaments in March, 2012. Meatex has decided to ban him from all FaDe clan wars as well, and will suggest some form of "community service" to be done which will be announced shortly in his statement.

This morning he woke up a well respected member of the FaDe and the SC2SEA community, tonight he goes to bed held in a very different regard. I feel the hacking stigma that will follow him for the rest of his sc2 days as well as the shame in this thread and sc2sea+fade bans is punishment enough. He is well aware that what he did is wrong, and I also wish him the best in his IRL issues and hope they get resolved. As nemo said, there is no need to ostracise him or tear him apart, and I'm always one to believe that people can change for the better. I'll be looking forward to his "community services" which has to be something substantial and at the same time we want to send a message that hacking will not be tolerated. So any repeat offenders will be life banned from sc2sea (forums+tournaments).

A statement from meatex and evets will come tomorrow.

Quick Comments

	Zealo:	thankyou for taking such a strong yet reasonable stance :)
	wolf:
	Nemo:	Good
	AxSGRiM:

[mGGDaedalus]

Meatex will eventually be releasing a statement, but I think people just need to keep things in perspective. Yes evets did something bad and yes there obviously will be some form of punishment (not to mention the fact that he's lost the trust of a large portion of the community).

But there are different tiers of messing up. A guy who uses a hack in one ladder game for S&G vs a guy who hacks all the time and/or hacks in tournament events, are very different cases and should be treated as such. Sure, you can say 'he did it once who's to say he didn't do it more', and that's not an easy situation to resolve, but I just think people need to put the severity of the situation in perspective before grabbing their pitchforks. (Disclaimer yes I'm his clan mate and I'm biased, but if I thought he was scum I wouldn't deny it just cause he was in my clan).

edit: In response to grim, I was saying we needed to judge the situation based off the information at hand. There was no evidence of further hacking, I was simply saying if you want to accuse him of more than that, please provide some evidence. Obviously that's been done now.

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

Hacking is severe, he did it once who's to say he didn't do it more?

[Sanctify]

of course it was only one ladder game. sucks when you use a hack just one time and get caught with it right ?

also he was accused by 2 people separately of hacking, before he admitted it - and he denied it.

But hey, this is what makes 'esports' the joke it is.

Quick Comments

PiG:

the guy on the video game forum says esports is a joke...

[MooZfY]

+ Show +

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Sanctify

of course it was only one ladder game. sucks when you use a hack just one time and get caught with it right ?

also he was accused by 2 people separately of hacking, before he admitted it - and he denied it.

But hey, this is what makes 'esports' the joke it is.

Exactly, and the only evidence for it only 'being one game' is the word of someone who was hacking and previously lied about hacking in the first place. Besides the fact there are several people in this thread detailing how they think his play was suspect on several different occasions.

Quick Comments

Rage:

not sure why no one else has said this - you don't trust someone who previously lied just because they really truly swore they seriously didn't lie this time.

[TAScarecrow]

Very lenient, it's hard to believe the only game he ever hacked in was the one where he got caught. Muse calling him out on the first page + the initial lying/defence makes the confession look more like calculated damage control. Great message to send to people: if you do get caught hacking, admit to the games cited and say it was only this once for a slap on the wrist.\

edit: at the very least he could've uploaded a complete ladder rep pack from last season, instead he offered a 55 min stream VOD which proved nothing

[FaDeBadger]

With the exception of Meatex's statement on FaDe's side of this situation it's starting to be like beating a dead horse no?

Some people won't believe it was the only game he hacked, some will. Never going to convince people otherwise. Let it go.

Quick Comments

stalking you:

well said

[Volition]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Very lenient, it's hard to believe the only game he ever hacked in was the one where he got caught. Muse calling him out on the first page + the initial lying/defence makes the confession look more like calculated damage control. Great message to send to people: if you do get caught hacking, admit to the games cited and say it was only this once for a slap on the wrist.

Well what punishment would you believe is reasonable? a 9 week break seems more than reasonable to me, given what has happened to his reputation through this thread. whether or not he has hacked more than one game is irrelevant - as you will see him as a hacker forever.

So, what do you think is a just punishment that should be handed out by us as a community?

Should we rely on knee jerk reactions - such as those that have been posted throughout the thread? or should we use this thread as a message to the hackers - we are a community, and we will find you and report you to your clan and blizzard, which is truly all we have in our power to do.

Volition

Quick Comments

	FaDeBadger:
	nirvAnA:	Yea I believe this thread already sends an adequate message to hackers on what will happen to you. Hero to Zero and all.
	Nemo:	+1

[FaDeGofire]

If he has hacked in other games then I hope others will post more replays to prove it. If it is true then of course a much heavier punishment should be handed out (since it would be the second time lying in this thread). Until then, I will believe evets' admission and i find the punishment to be appropriate.

[dippa]

Coming from other communities, I wouldn't describe the 3 month ban as "harsh", although I'm glad that some form of ban has been instituted.

Having seen the Australian and New Zealand Counter-Strike community completely torn to shreds by a lack of willingness to remove hackers from the scene, I'd favour a much stronger ban - 12 months minimum, if not a complete removal from all competitions for life in lieu of the attempted "defence" and the lies that came with it.

SC2 in SEA is so much larger than every other game we've had over the last ten years, with Counter-Strike being the only possible exception. The community is large enough to withstand the permanent, or at least semi-permanent removal of one player in order to maintain integrity.

You can't put a price on setting a good example. It's not just the fact that he wasted everybody's time and effort by forcing us (the community) to expose him, but the additional time wasted by playing in games that have been revealed to be nothing but a complete farce.

Most gamers aren't little kids anymore. We're adults with little time to spare, an absolutely precious commodity. Get rid of this obnoxious little parasite and send out a proper message that hacking will not be tolerated in any way shape or form.

I don't feel the punishment does that. If you want to hack, you should do so on the understanding that you will not be allowed to interact or compete with the community (since the act of hacking, and lying about it, is actively undermining everything an online community stands for).

Quick Comments

	TAScarecrow:
	Peleus:
	Sanctify:
	x5.Revenant:	There should be a punishment imposed for "attempted defence" too..but oh well! Live and let live.

[EveMassacrisM]

I've noticed him hacking in a few games way back in season 3. JazBas also said he knew EvetS was a hacker. Clearly this guy didn't just hack 1 game like he claimed.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by EveMassacrisM

I've noticed him hacking in a few games way back in season 3. JazBas also said he knew EvetS was a hacker. Clearly this guy didn't just hack 1 game like he claimed.

You can't just say you noticed him hacking, post proof please. As for the Jazbas incident I believe that was sorted out at the time by Meatex, although I wasn't in the clan at that stage so don't know details.

[ToRDeathsFang]

In response to dippa, i would completely agree with everything you're saying, if the person hacking is a complete douche (ie someone like Deezer for example) In which case i'd be happy to see that person permanently banned and never seen again.

But since the person in question is Evets, a well respected member of the community and someone who has donated a fair bit of his time to the community, combined with the fact which he had the balls to own up to it, i think there should be some leniency. He, more than most people would deserve a second chance.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[Sanctify]

Accused of hacking, denying it, fade defends him, admits it, lies, fade still defending him and trying to bullshit, all being retards and unwilling to openly accept the facts and be honest.

Face it its known by everyone beyond reasonable doubt, even if not proven straight out, that he's a hacker, and not just for 'one game.'

But hey why does it matter? He's friends with some top players and has a FaDe to pretend to have authority in the community and defend/comtinue bullshitting. How noble and honest of him to admit to using hacks once.

Pathetic community.

Quick Comments

	EveMassacrisM:	Very pathetic indeed.
	nirvAnA:	punishment has already been served. do police still cut off hands of thieves? I think not
	MooZfY:	Hey! we're not a pathetic community :(
	dippa:	there's nothing "noble" in being forced to admit to cheating, wish more people understood this.
	TAScarecrow:
	FaDeBadger:	Pathetic post from a pathetic person
	Imperial:	hear hear!
	Nemo:	Don't call us pathetic please. Really.
	mGMUSE:	agreed
	RicocheT:	No sir. Don't call the community pathetic either.
	simon:
	asdfSchnitzel:	Thats just harsh
	EXCL:	not needed
	:	here's more pathetic rep
	Welshy:	If you don't like the decisions of the Admins of sc2sea gtfo then
	ToRSpartaz:	SPAM REP <3
	Rage:	i don't like that you called the community pathetic, but the rest is spot on.
	Bash:	This post is kinda sad.
	nard:	:( so sad
	TCPKiaSu:	agree with rage
	stalking you:	I dont like you insulting us :(

[Volition]

Originally Posted by dippa

Coming from other communities, I wouldn't describe the 3 month ban as "harsh", although I'm glad that some form of ban has been instituted.

Having seen the Australian and New Zealand Counter-Strike community completely torn to shreds by a lack of willingness to remove hackers from the scene, I'd favour a much stronger ban - 12 months minimum, if not a complete removal from all competitions for life in lieu of the attempted "defence" and the lies that came with it.

SC2 in SEA is so much larger than every other game we've had over the last ten years, with Counter-Strike being the only possible exception. The community is large enough to withstand the permanent, or at least semi-permanent removal of one player in order to maintain integrity.

You can't put a price on setting a good example. It's not just the fact that he wasted everybody's time and effort by forcing us (the community) to expose him, but the additional time wasted by playing in games that have been revealed to be nothing but a complete farce.

Most gamers aren't little kids anymore. We're adults with little time to spare, an absolutely precious commodity. Get rid of this obnoxious little parasite and send out a proper message that hacking will not be tolerated in any way shape or form.

I don't feel the punishment does that. If you want to hack, you should do so on the understanding that you will not be allowed to interact or compete with the community (since the act of hacking, and lying about it, is actively undermining everything an online community stands for).

Interesting rhetoric - we should have at least a 12 month ban for a guy that has made a few posts then admitted that he was in the wrong? you are overestimating the pull of the sc2sea community. to be banned from this community is not to have your account deleted from the game etc.

Evets has said he has done the wrong thing, the punishment has been handed down from the people in control, yet the complaints come. why.

you know that from this point on, every single game that Evets plays in the future is going to be reviewed suspiciously - even when he makes good judgement calls he is going to be called a hacker.

I think we should be focusing our efforts on the amazing things that sc2sea has to offer instead of beating this deadhorse into submission. once again, why.

Volition

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	that and getting 12 months of exile is as good as never touching sc2 again
	PiG:	the voice of reason speaks

[dippa]

Originally Posted by DeathsFang

In response to dippa, i would completely agree with everything you're saying, if the person hacking is a complete douche (ie someone like Deezer for example) In which case i'd be happy to see that person permanently banned and never seen again.

But since the person in question is Evets, a well respected member of the community and someone who has donated a fair bit of his time to the community, combined with the fact which he had the balls to own up to it, i think there should be some leniency. He, more than most people would deserve a second chance.

That doesn't work. He can't be a well respected person IF HE DECIDED TO CHEAT.

Also, he didn't have the balls to own up to it; he was exposed and decided to lie, only choosing to admit the truth after his defence was fractured with evidence to the contrary.

His actions shows that he's obviously lacking in principle; I can't imagine how anyone could still hold him in high regard (beyond close friends) after all of that.

Quick Comments

	mGMUSE:	the reason i'm still posting is because his explanation is STILL a lie
	stalking you:

[dippa]

Originally Posted by Volition

Interesting rhetoric - we should have at least a 12 month ban for a guy that has made a few posts then admitted that he was in the wrong? you are overestimating the pull of the sc2sea community. to be banned from this community is not to have your account deleted from the game etc.

Evets has said he has done the wrong thing, the punishment has been handed down from the people in control, yet the complaints come. why.

you know that from this point on, every single game that Evets plays in the future is going to be reviewed suspiciously - even when he makes good judgement calls he is going to be called a hacker.

I think we should be focusing our efforts on the amazing things that sc2sea has to offer instead of beating this deadhorse into submission. once again, why.

Volition

I understand SC2SEA can't prevent people from playing the game, but they can make a stance and set the standards for being a member of the community.

Just because he will come under scrutiny in the future is not in any way recompense for wasting people's time and enjoyment with hacks. If I offered you the opportunity to play a game against someone who was hacking or someone who wasn't, what would you choose? The game ceases to be enjoyable when your opponents are tracking your every move.

Also, just because punishment has been doled out and an apology has been provided - which was not in any way, shape or form forthcoming until his lies were well and truly exposed - doesn't mean further discussion on the topic is unwarranted.

Having a strong community is part of the wonderful things SC2SEA can offer, and it's everyone's job to safeguard that. This is the perfect opportunity for the community to lay down a precedent for the future; if you consider that a "complaint", then I can do nothing more but disagree with your sentiments in the strongest possible terms.

[TAScarecrow]

Originally Posted by Volition

Well what punishment would you believe is reasonable? a 9 week break seems more than reasonable to me, given what has happened to his reputation through this thread. whether or not he has hacked more than one game is irrelevant - as you will see him as a hacker forever.

So, what do you think is a just punishment that should be handed out by us as a community?

Should we rely on knee jerk reactions - such as those that have been posted throughout the thread? or should we use this thread as a message to the hackers - we are a community, and we will find you and report you to your clan and blizzard, which is truly all we have in our power to do.

Volition

Agreed with Dippa, 6 months to a year seems reasonable. Hacking's the gaming equivalent of 1st degree murder as far as i'm concerned. Fade's response is piss weak, the few that are caught should be made examples of. No forum ban is also bloody soft for a gaming community.

I'lm sure hackers are shaking in their boots. "You're unlikely to get caught unless you admit it; your clanmates will support you throughout and if you come clean we'll be super nice about it and give you some community work to do."

All this thread says is "Don't get caught twice".