[Peleus]

Originally Posted by RamboLicious

checked. Frankly this doesn't really prove that he's a cheater, he saw ur fast lings, slow expo, and u're a random player...
Certainly he can't be sure that u're going to cheese, but he could sense something.

I think we should have a clearer proof, guys

You don't build 6? cannons at your natural on a hunch that he's going all in from early ling speed. Also it's convenient that the only other possible scouting that he did would have been clicking his probe to scout inside the main, directly over the roach warren in the fog of war.

[TargA]

I think we need a certain bearded dwarf with an axe to settle this.

Quick Comments

	x5.Revenant:	LOL.
	Stallion:	iaguz FIGHT!
	ROOT`iaguz:	The wrong axe in the right place can make all the difference, Mr TargA

[TAEdgE]

What is this I don't even..

Quick Comments

[TA]LoSt:

Always late to the party ^_^

[Rockstar]

I hacked once when I was about 14 playing Quake 2... It was called the ratbot and you'd run around shooting railguns out your asshole. It was pretty funny. There was also this one time I downloaded a hack for CS 1.5 or something, only because noone would tell me wtf player locator was, and I wanted to see it. After running around playing against bots with it on I came to the conclusion it was a fuckload harder trying to use it than it was to just play normally. Didn't actually ever use it in a server.

Hacking is completely and utterly ******* low. As low as you can go in any competitive game. It's like taking a dive in soccer, or punching someone in the face in a scrum... Or stealing money from the bank in monopoly. What do you get out of it? Sweet **** all.

Evets, If you honestly want to make amends for this stupid stupid decision, delete your account. Start a fresh one, upload every replay on your way back up.

[phoney]

Once admitted+proven to be cheating, just have to face the consequences and get closure.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

Seems like badger wont... *glasses* let this issue fade away,.... YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH

Off topic, but best rep comment ever!

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by dippa

Hacking doesn't affect just FaDe, it affects the entire community, so how about you let us collectively set a precedent for how to best deal with the scum of the earth, thanks.

Badger was referring specifically to the comment that Peleus made about 'kicking evetS out of FaDe'. Naturally he wasn't happy about an outsider seemingly trying to dictate clan matters, hence his comment.

Of course, what happens from the outside is a different matter altogether. Whether the offenders will be banned from tournaments, etc would depend on the tournament admins such as Eddie, Baka, nirvAnA. We just have to wait for input from them then.

Quick Comments

FaDeBadger:

This ^

[Maynarde]

FaDe decides EvetS' future in FaDe.

Blizzard decides the future of his account.

WE will decide if he is able to continue to participating in SC2sea tournaments. The answer will likely be "no", but there may be a chance that he will be allowed to return in the future. Everyone deserves a second chance but stuff like this shouldn't go un-punished.

I consider him a great guy and one of my good friends, but I am disappoint EvetS

Quick Comments

	EXCL:	nuf said
	NvRossi:	WISE
	Cute:	Wisdom
	Flamga:	amen
	MazEi:	wisetality
	deL:
	ToRSpartaz:	I like giving Rep :D
	AxSGRiM:
	TAriiChard:	why are you always right!
	Nemo:	Exactly too
	nirvAnA:	exactly!
	aLtMrFool:	BOSS MODE ON!

[krycek]

sad sad day for sea community, we are ripping ourselves apart

Quick Comments

	TAScarecrow:	no need for hyperbole
	TADivinity:	C,mon dude, you may as well say EvetS ruined e-sports

[Cordance]

Originally Posted by TCPkrycek

sad sad day for sea community, we are ripping ourselves apart

I disagree action is being taken by admins and moderators as stated. The issue in question happens out side of our Tournaments so they are still free from cheating. Given you have to submit all replays if you win the CO and they are on the website unless there is a good reason for them not being released (up coming major event then they are delayed). The only thing in this thread is thoughts an opinions they are not all going to be the same but you can still get along with people with out the same opinions.

[ToRSpartaz]

Seriously this issue is one that effects the community, dont let your opinions become influenced by eaach other. Seriously leave it to the admins and Blizz and those members of FaDe to decide EvetS fate... Tbh input from everyone else isnt contributing to the situation. Its just adding fuel to the fire so call it peace and let Maynarde and Nir and who ever short it out.

Dont destroy relationships over an individual its pointless and not worth it. The activities of the individual dont reflect a clan. So keep view points and ideas to ones self.

Quick Comments

	JoFritzMD:
	Flamga:
	asdfSchnitzel:
	PiG:	hi5
	mGMUSE:	i was wrongly aggressive i apologize
	nirvAnA:

[aztecx]

Teamliquid bans hackers of their site permanently. A top 2v2 player who also made GM on NA with a sick record in season 1 finally admitted to hacking after 5+ replays were posted and detailed analysis was conducted (some morons also spent a week or so trying to defend him). He was permanetly banned from Teamliquid. as was one of his friends who vouched so strongly for him that even insisted if his friend really hacks the mods should ban the both of them.

I honestly believe that the same punishment should apply here to FaDeNooB, which includes a permanent ban from future SEA tournaments. If someone didn't confront him about this, he would have most likely continued cheating and ruining the game for all those people playing on SEA.

I also think that FaDeBadger should be banned because he's setting a horrible example to not just his clan mates, but also everyone that is part of the community.

I remember when I was 16 I spent months gathering replays of cheaters in the Australian Quake 2 scene, and after they finally admitted to it I only saw them get banned for four days. Some people do find it easier to distinguish cheaters from others, just like Muse said in one of his earlier posts. I have no sympathy for piece of shit hackers and I think they deserve everything negative that comes their way.

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	Ban Badger? No.
	FaDeBadger:	What is this... I don't even...
	EXCL:	starting with name calling now.... sad
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	too far...
	sRAnti:	Calm down
	RicocheT:	Nup nup
	ToRDeathsFang:	umad?
	mGGDaedalus:	don't see TL banning TT1, dimaga etc.
	mGMUSE:	re rep

[Zealo]

i was kinda expecting some sort of penalty to be handed out by the admins by now, i'll be pretty disappointed if there are no consequences

[FaDeEvetS]

Originally Posted by Zealo

i was kinda expecting some sort of penalty to be handed out by the admins by now, i'll be pretty disappointed if there are no consequences

Some sort of ban from online events is kind've a given.

[Nemo]

Well, giving time to time was indeed what to do. Let's remember it next time it happens.

I watched the Timber replay yesterday and made many screenshots I intended to post. I had still no clear conclusion about it apart from one move super super suspect (counter of the doom drop before seeing it). Even the 25min "Muta intercept" seemed quite legit when watching it very closely. All that to say it's uneasy to spot Map Hack from a good player. Only multiple replay and very precise analysis can show it.

Evets has admitted cheating. Frankly it's doubtful he has done it once only as he says and analyze of Muse replay might be useful to do. I will check them when I have some time. It's now less urgent anyway. I will do this not to put Evets head even deeper in the mud but to respect Muse call.

Let all remember that Muse then Timber showed a lot of courage in putting the subject on the table. You put yourself at great "reputation" risk when exposing a respected member of the community, just remember the past ...

So I would like to thanks you both for having the courage to post the replays and make the accusation. Big, big props to you, the community owes you a lot.

Now for Evets. I had and still have a very good opinion of him and consider him as a friend. We all have done bad things in our lives, things we are ashamed of. So I won't throw him the first rock. I prefer 100 times someone who cheats and admits it than someone who cheats and doesn't admit it and then lets all his friends who defend him look bad. Of course I prefer 100 times the guy that doesn't cheat at all in the first place ...

That being said, there must be of course official punishment. He has to "pay the price to the society" as part of redeeming himself.

As Maynarde said, there must be punishment by the clan and punishment by the community. It might be a common punishment.

I think Meatex, leader of Fade, and Nirvana, the closer we have to a community leader, must discuss it and decide an appropriate set of punishments. My ideas on the subject:

• Don't be too harsh. That's only a game after all.
• No life ban, no more (an no less) than 1 or 2 month ban. We need Evets in this community.
• Ban him from competition but not from the site. He needs to be able to talk to us. He never behaved badly here.
• I like community work as punishment. He could make the 50% of the Replay analysis for example for a month (I need some help there), or write some article for TGM or refresh some. Working for others is the best redeeming action you can think of.

As usual, it's only my opinion on the moment, I keep my mind open to other's ideas.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	perfect
	EXCL:
	Zealo:	very reasonable
	wolf:
	asdfSchnitzel:
	Synizta:	Nemo keeping the clamness around ^.^

[Meatex]

A statement from the sc2sea team, Clan FaDe and EvetS is coming in due time
Just so you know that there is movement on this issue

[nirvAnA]

Sequoia played sheepy on his smurf. He watched the replay. Seq had 2 groups of blink stalkers and did a multi prong attack. His player camera was looking at just one area while BOTH groups were being controlled with perfect blink micro simultaneously. He doesn't even attempt to hide it, he just blatantly hacks. I've heard this from many sources including jazbas etc whos integrity and judgement i don't doubt.

---

Official Stance on map hacking:

And yes, it is exactly as what Maynade has said.

• The clan decides the player's future in their clan.
• Blizzard decides the future of his account.
• SC2SEA decides if he is able to continue participating in SC2sea tournaments.

Had a discussion with the team and we felt a standard 3 month ban from all tournaments including SEACL #2 would be adequate punishment for the "standard maphacker", but not a complete site/account ban from the forums. We are not an inflexible bureaucratic organisation and will take each individual case into account. Bearing in mind evets history of being a good poster/streamer and well mannered and liked in the community, as well as coming out to admit it, this sentence would probably be reduced to a minimum 2 month site ban for all our tournaments. Therefore he can only play again in our tournaments in March, 2012. Meatex has decided to ban him from all FaDe clan wars as well, and will suggest some form of "community service" to be done which will be announced shortly in his statement.

This morning he woke up a well respected member of the FaDe and the SC2SEA community, tonight he goes to bed held in a very different regard. I feel the hacking stigma that will follow him for the rest of his sc2 days as well as the shame in this thread and sc2sea+fade bans is punishment enough. He is well aware that what he did is wrong, and I also wish him the best in his IRL issues and hope they get resolved. As nemo said, there is no need to ostracise him or tear him apart, and I'm always one to believe that people can change for the better. I'll be looking forward to his "community services" which has to be something substantial and at the same time we want to send a message that hacking will not be tolerated. So any repeat offenders will be life banned from sc2sea (forums+tournaments).

A statement from meatex and evets will come tomorrow.

Quick Comments

	Zealo:	thankyou for taking such a strong yet reasonable stance :)
	wolf:
	Nemo:	Good
	AxSGRiM:

[mGGDaedalus]

Meatex will eventually be releasing a statement, but I think people just need to keep things in perspective. Yes evets did something bad and yes there obviously will be some form of punishment (not to mention the fact that he's lost the trust of a large portion of the community).

But there are different tiers of messing up. A guy who uses a hack in one ladder game for S&G vs a guy who hacks all the time and/or hacks in tournament events, are very different cases and should be treated as such. Sure, you can say 'he did it once who's to say he didn't do it more', and that's not an easy situation to resolve, but I just think people need to put the severity of the situation in perspective before grabbing their pitchforks. (Disclaimer yes I'm his clan mate and I'm biased, but if I thought he was scum I wouldn't deny it just cause he was in my clan).

edit: In response to grim, I was saying we needed to judge the situation based off the information at hand. There was no evidence of further hacking, I was simply saying if you want to accuse him of more than that, please provide some evidence. Obviously that's been done now.

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

Hacking is severe, he did it once who's to say he didn't do it more?

[Sanctify]

of course it was only one ladder game. sucks when you use a hack just one time and get caught with it right ?

also he was accused by 2 people separately of hacking, before he admitted it - and he denied it.

But hey, this is what makes 'esports' the joke it is.

Quick Comments

PiG:

the guy on the video game forum says esports is a joke...

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Sanctify

of course it was only one ladder game. sucks when you use a hack just one time and get caught with it right ?

also he was accused by 2 people separately of hacking, before he admitted it - and he denied it.

But hey, this is what makes 'esports' the joke it is.

Exactly, and the only evidence for it only 'being one game' is the word of someone who was hacking and previously lied about hacking in the first place. Besides the fact there are several people in this thread detailing how they think his play was suspect on several different occasions.

Quick Comments

Rage:

not sure why no one else has said this - you don't trust someone who previously lied just because they really truly swore they seriously didn't lie this time.