[Strafe]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

I'll assume Strafe was just kidding and hope noone actually adopts this attitude or makes this 'joke' that will directly hinder the rehabilitation and reformation of evetS.

Definitely not. You receive coaching in order to become better in a legit way. You want to become better because you love the competition and constantly want to prove yourself and measure yourself against others. The ultimate goal is to lay the smack down upon everyone and earn the mad respect you deserve.

What Evets basically did was say screw all that competition. I'm just going to cheat and pretend I can beat everyone so I get respect from online players even though it's not justified. He basically did everything against the spirit of competition and fair play. It's just wrong on a moral level to have such a player help others compete. By allowing him to coach others you attach a certain kind of credibility to his persona that he just does not deserve at this point. Being a coach, especially at GM level, is a display of a certain status. By making him a coach you will simply convey the wrong message to the community at this point.

It should be made absolutely clear to everyone that what Evets did was wrong and that he's being punished for it. Coaching others just doesn't fit in there at all. He should rehabilitate himself by simply being useful in the community. You shouldn't force him to. Where is the sincerity in that? Over time he himself can prove that he deserves another chance. His punishment for the while being though will be a complete ban from all competition until further notice.

I do respect Nirvana's & co's opinions. They clearly try to resolve this the fairest and best way possible for everyone while listening to everyones comments on the matter and in the end it is their decision+ site. However, I do feel they are way too lenient in this case and basically a bit too soft. But like Light explained this might be, because I actually grind 1000's of games without maphack so everyone taking a short cut is a huge dick in my eyes. I simply can't be bothered too much in this case, because even with maphack Evets won't be able to win anything ever, so he isn't ruining too much.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	my mate robert
	:	missing the point :(
	EveParachute:
	fray`Alpha:

[Rage]

For me its not even the hacking that was the biggest deal to me, but more the constant lying about it.

That is the part that I can't forgive.

By all means lets give him a chance to prove himself in the community, but I, personally, will never believe a damn word he says ever again about anything unless I know it to be true for myself.

[crAzerk]

You are not understanding my post.

'I'll assume Strafe was just kidding and hope noone actually adopts this attitude or makes this 'joke' that will directly hinder the rehabilitation and reformation of evetS.'

I was referring to your attitude, in your post:

Receiving coaching from a self admitted maphacker must be awesome. I bet everyone is dying to have him tell you where to look for and how to not get caught.

Where you are responding sarcastically to a (potential, if it happens) effort by him to 'redeem' himself.

Well you have made your stance clear about him coaching and I won't contest that, just that I don't agree with a 'lulz he's a hacker let's bring that up and ridicule him' attitude at things that he does (e.g. community service) to 'be useful in the community' as you say.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

Where you are responding sarcastically to an effort by him to 'redeem' himself.

Actually these are all things that other people have suggested for him. He's barely made a peep since being outed... Seems to me he just spends his time playing SC2 on NA and KR..

[FaDeEvetS]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Actually these are all things that other people have suggested for him. He's barely made a peep since being outed... Seems to me he just spends his time playing SC2 on NA and KR..

except for the 2-3 times that i've stated in this thread (and more times to individuals) that I fully intend to come back and attempt to fix things, however i'm staying out of the e-drama until the IRL issues/dramas are dealt with, so as to not bring that here more and make things worse. The admins have on multiple occasions said 'this is the punishment, stop talking about it until further things occur' - hate me all you want but if this wis what the sc2sea admins state..

Hopefully this will be the last time i have to say, i'm fully intending on working on this but would rather work on real issues first.

Quick Comments

	Rage:	It's not a real issue?
	TCPKiaSu:	countering rage -1

[ROOTPetraeus]

Wow! Only just read about the commencing bans. Its good to see people taking this stuff seriously

[TCPKiaSu]

@crazerk, I think what strafe is saying is that coaches are like teachers and you usually respect and trust the. personally I wouldn't be that happy if evets coached me because I have no more respect for him anymore and hmm I dunno how to put the feeling in words but I hope u understand. strafe u can correct me if I'm wrong :P

[crAzerk]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Actually these are all things that other people have suggested for him. He's barely made a peep since being outed... Seems to me he just spends his time playing SC2 on NA and KR..

I probably didn't word what I said well enough - I didn't mean he was already starting it and putting it effort ( i hope he does!), I'm saying that IF he does, AND people still talk like that, it would be just unnecessary negativity.
Made a slight edit (the brackets) to my OP to make it clearer.

Originally Posted by TCPDeathwing

@crazerk, I think what strafe is saying is that coaches are like teachers and you usually respect and trust the. personally I wouldn't be that happy if evets coached me because I have no more respect for him anymore and hmm I dunno how to put the feeling in words but I hope u understand. strafe u can correct me if I'm wrong :P

Yup, I get that. I fully acknowledge that having him coach isn't really a good idea because he has little credibility now. I've already mentioned this above when I was going through the list of 4 Community Service activities.


To reiterate my point:
IF etevS does indeed commence his community work and works to be a useful contributor here (I'm not talking specifically about coaching), we need to stop hurling this negativity his way whether it is sarcasm, ridicule, or despise.
A simple example, if he writes a replay analysis, and if someone replies it with 'lulz what would you know you use maphack', that would be unnecessary negativity.

Quick Comments

	TCPKiaSu:
	PiG:
	FlashVeno:
	asdfSchnitzel:

[TCPKiaSu]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

To reiterate my point:
IF etevS does indeed commence his community work and works to be a useful contributor here (I'm not talking specifically about coaching), we need to stop hurling this negativity his way whether it is sarcasm, ridicule, or despise.
A simple example, if he writes a replay analysis, and if someone replies it with 'lulz what would you know you use maphack', that would be unnecessary negativity.

also just saying about this matter, people shouldn't immediately flame someone if he or she DOES do that because not everyone can forgive so fast and some people will take this more seriously from other past experiences and what they have been through with hackers.

[Rage]

Forcing hackers to do things such as coaching and writing articles does seem to be missing the point a bit.

To my mind, the end goal of getting Evets (and other future offenders) to do things like this, is not so much to obtain the things themselves, articles, coaching time, etc, but more to allow them to demonstrate their commitment to working again to be a part of the community. Forcing them to do certain things, to my mind, does not achieve that.

A better approach would simply to say "To regain the respect/a place in our community, you need to work to benefit it in some way" and let them decide how best to do that themselves. That, to me, would better demonstrate their sincerity than effectively giving them nothing more than a checklist for how to get back into the community.

[Flaunt]

people do make mistakes. i have no idea who you are but i really hope you change your ways, ,mate. gl hf (:

[ToRSpartaz]

Sigh* the direction of this issue is going EXACTLY where I thought it would. Could we please leave it as Nir's Final Post on the stance of the Sc2sea community on "Hackers".

Because this is becoming a witch hunt. Yes it can't be ignored, but us lowly members can we leave it to the higher power to deal with the problem. We can bring these issues to the awareness of the mods quietly. Publicly announcing can really have an adverse effect in some situations.

Don't bite my head off just saying. (:

Quick Comments

	sRAnti:	The most annoying thing is that it's over. Punishment has been given, but people are still raging
	faithHunter:	Forgive and forget, guys :D
	faithHunter:	Forgive and forget, guys :D
	nGenLight:	I disagree, public executions sets an example and standard for the community.
	x5.Revenant:	How did neoxza rep twice WHAT SORCERY IS THIS?

[cruxBsK]

I'm happy with the stance sc2sea has taken on caught offenders and agree with the punishments given as it provides the offender with time to reflect on the error of their ways.

good work Sc2sea

[TAEdarus]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

whatever the punishment decided for evets, meany has to be punished and even more because he denied it and we want to send the message that denying it shouldn't be rewarded.

Wait, did I miss something?

Was EvetS punished more due to being caught in a lie twice? If so, ignore this but I wasn't sure if the punishment was adjusted based off this... then seeing that comment I wanted to be sure I was 100% on the right page.

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by TAEdarus

Wait, did I miss something?

Was EvetS punished more due to being caught in a lie twice? If so, ignore this but I wasn't sure if the punishment was adjusted based off this... then seeing that comment I wanted to be sure I was 100% on the right page.

He did lie twice. MeaNy NEVER admitted to hacking where as EvetS came clean is the only difference really.

[nard]

Yes. He hacked. Yes. He lied. Is anyone forgetting that he is going through a tough time right now?

As far as cheating's concerned, it has been proven. Now can we give him a break and let him get his life in order without all this e-drama please?

I consider Evets a good friend, always ready for a chat online. To see this unfold was heartbreaking. I hope y'all would give him some space and understanding for a while.

Note space and understanding does not equate to forgiveness. Now that we've all agreed he's a hacker and what-not. Lets move on.

Quick Comments

	TAEdarus:	I didn't see anyone directly attacking him, we're discussing the issue.
	x5.Revenant:	Totally missing out all the valid points brought against him.
	Rage:	He cheated,denied it, then made an insincere apology veiled within yet another lie. No respect.
	NvJazBas:	-_-

[TAEdgE]

I like both above posts but can't rep.
edit: although I don't agree with the clan keeping him, I can see why they would.