[aLtShortizz]

Updated 7Min roach all-in! Hehe

[ProAnnn]

i would like to add in some things for you
High priority targets :
Artosis pylon
Cybernectics core

If the protoss wall with their cybernectics core, its normally worth it to target it down since it may cancel warp gate tech. Even if warp gate tech finish they cant warp in sentries/ stalkers.

Quick Comments

aLtShortizz:

Thanks! I did highlight the lone pylon as the high priority target. Will add in what u said about the CC later tonight! Thanks again!

[TAhackdZ]

Very nice write up dude, I can learn alot from you me thinks...

Had no idea you had smashed you way up the leagues so quickly. Gratz

[Meatex]

I find the roach ling all in isn't as effective in lower leagues (low diamond and below) as toss tend to randomly get too many cannons. Whenever I try it despite having killed his first probe and a second without him seeing anything - i do try to let him see the expo so he thinks its a standard speedling expo.
but then my lings poke up and see he has dropped 2 cannons and third on the way TT
But sick post nonetheless

[Next_rim]

as toss tend to randomly get too many cannons.

I'm diamond, and I always put at least 2 cannons. I also always get voidray first, despite sometimes being punished with muta.

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by Meatex

I find the roach ling all in isn't as effective in lower leagues (low diamond and below) as toss tend to randomly get too many cannons. Whenever I try it despite having killed his first probe and a second without him seeing anything - i do try to let him see the expo so he thinks its a standard speedling expo.
but then my lings poke up and see he has dropped 2 cannons and third on the way TT
But sick post nonetheless

Roach ling allins are pretty against 1 gate expo / 3 gate expo in lower leagues since their forcefields arent very good. But against FFE i agree its not very good but its useful to make just 6-7 roaches to kill the cybernectics core and drone behind it. Make ur typical 7 minute evo chamber and 8 min spore at every single base while droning will make u safe against air/DT play

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by Meatex

I find the roach ling all in isn't as effective in lower leagues (low diamond and below) as toss tend to randomly get too many cannons. Whenever I try it despite having killed his first probe and a second without him seeing anything - i do try to let him see the expo so he thinks its a standard speedling expo.
but then my lings poke up and see he has dropped 2 cannons and third on the way TT
But sick post nonetheless

2 Cannons are fine, that protoss in the screenshots had 2 cannons up and 2 more building too but i whooped him anyways. Any protoss who put 3 cannons up on maps with Natural ramp despite seeing you take drones off gas is just silly. In any case, if u see 3-4 cannons being dropped, just scrap the all-in and get ur 3rd cos hes burning too much econ early on. If its in a map like XNC with a wide and open ramp, it 2-3 cannons wont matter, u`ll have a large surface to engage and getting a Nexus cancel would be a WIN!

@ Next_rim and proann, i have told alot of ppl before that it doesnt matter if hes going DT or VR. Your gonna hit BEFORE any of those comes out and even if they DO come out in the midst of ur attack, lings do fairly well doing dmg, especially against VRs. Using VRs to defend lings is just laughable, and like Proann said, all u have to do is drop an evo chamber and drone behind it.

PS: In my next edit, i will go through some SIMPLE mechanics such as larva/injects and OL placements etc. Mechanics are often the definition of your skill level as many former BW players would tel you.

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Looking forward to your next post Shortizz. Very useful info so far, but I think the basics will help me a tonne more.

[Meatex]

@shortizz yeah i don't like that build on shakuras tbh and in lower leagues protoss do get 3 cannons sometimes even on maps like shak
Even played a toss who dropped 5 cannons on XNC trying to safely expo
Looking forward to see your macro style. I still use mafia's style and I always have my injects slip under pressure or towards the end of long games TT

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

2 Cannons are fine, that protoss in the screenshots had 2 cannons up and 2 more building too but i whooped him anyways. Any protoss who put 3 cannons up on maps with Natural ramp despite seeing you take drones off gas is just silly. In any case, if u see 3-4 cannons being dropped, just scrap the all-in and get ur 3rd cos hes burning too much econ early on. If its in a map like XNC with a wide and open ramp, it 2-3 cannons wont matter, u`ll have a large surface to engage and getting a Nexus cancel would be a WIN!

@ Next_rim and proann, i have told alot of ppl before that it doesnt matter if hes going DT or VR. Your gonna hit BEFORE any of those comes out and even if they DO come out in the midst of ur attack, lings do fairly well doing dmg, especially against VRs. Using VRs to defend lings is just laughable, and like Proann said, all u have to do is drop an evo chamber and drone behind it.

PS: In my next edit, i will go through some SIMPLE mechanics such as larva/injects and OL placements etc. Mechanics are often the definition of your skill level as many former BW players would tel you.

Actually VR comes out in time but the VR will not save the nexus lol. So yeah. Roach ling is super strong unless the toss have really good simcity..

And normally DT expand is a blind counter to this build. Since DT comes out right after the nexus, if you are lucky you can proly cancel the nexus but no more.

[Next_rim]

@ Next_rim and proann, i have told alot of ppl before that it doesnt matter if hes going DT or VR. Your gonna hit BEFORE any of those comes out and even if they DO come out in the midst of ur attack, lings do fairly well doing dmg, especially against VRs. Using VRs to defend lings is just laughable, and like Proann said, all u have to do is drop an evo chamber and drone behind it.

Maybe at your level, it's true, but I don't have any trouble with diamond roach-ling all-ins (currently sporting 70% PvZ winrate, up from 64% in August), as long as I don't lose probes.

I play FFE into voidray into mothership, and do lots of little things, like 2x secondary pylon walls at nat->main ramp, 1 cannon up in main, and more, since I'm floating minerals before 3rd base. I just let the push break my wall and contain the army in natural after probes evacuate.

I've had lots of natural nexus snipes, but it turns out zerg loses more as long as I save probes. And my wall buildings (forge, core, gateway) are not vital for my production, since I have stargates and beacon safely packed up in main, behind secondary wall.

My goal after push is not to immediately kill, but rebuild natural and get safe 3rd. I don't care how many spores you have, I just double expand, and my 3rd is safe under mothership. As I'm floating minerals, it's very easy to put stupid amount of cannons in each base. Carriers own hydra, lings don't do much with well-positioned mothership. After I have 4 carriers, I can easily contain zerg on 3 bases, and slowly build up air deathball for the win off 8 gases.

Most zerg naturally transition into corruptors and infestors, and 999 bases, but I usually manage to contain them enough with hatchery snipe + recalls to make my econ unstoppable. If zerg stay hydra, they lose no chance.

[aLtShortizz]

Updated with some simple mechanics tips, also insights from top Sea coach aLtPig!

Will touch on Map control and Hotkeys next edit.

[Meatex]

@Shizz
nice little additions though just a simple shift + 1 (or 2 or 3 etc) will add stuff to the control group

@proann
yeah mothership is quite good and underused. I always have the most trouble with protoss when they have lots of air because corrupters are terrible as are hydras. Usually have to try to force a base trade

[lolwut]

@shortizz

How to you beat protoss when they transition into carrier/mothership/stalker after the NesTea spine rush? I decided to do this build in ladder and it was fairly successful killing his gate and forge as well as a plylon but 3 cannons stopped me moving in further.

So i got hydras suspecting voids and sure enough they were there. I buildt some more drones into main and nat were saturated and then took a 3rd.

Then protoss moves out with 3 carriers stalkers and a mothership. I saved gas and build 11 corrupts as well as ling/roach but when he pushed they just didn't do enough to damage his army.

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by lolwut

@shortizz

How to you beat protoss when they transition into carrier/mothership/stalker after the NesTea spine rush? I decided to do this build in ladder and it was fairly successful killing his gate and forge as well as a plylon but 3 cannons stopped me moving in further.

So i got hydras suspecting voids and sure enough they were there. I buildt some more drones into main and nat were saturated and then took a 3rd.

Then protoss moves out with 3 carriers stalkers and a mothership. I saved gas and build 11 corrupts as well as ling/roach but when he pushed they just didn't do enough to damage his army.

If you keep ur hydras alive, if you have something around 5:1 Hydra to carrier ratio, you can use hydra kill the interceptors, focus fire the mothership with the corruptors. Try having a spore wall at ur natural or something. Something along 5 spores would be enough to kill every single interceptor while providing detection. Corruptors are surprisingly useless against this composition, you'll do better with hydras + spores and killing the interceptors instead of carriers.

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by lolwut

@shortizz

How to you beat protoss when they transition into carrier/mothership/stalker after the NesTea spine rush? I decided to do this build in ladder and it was fairly successful killing his gate and forge as well as a plylon but 3 cannons stopped me moving in further.

So i got hydras suspecting voids and sure enough they were there. I buildt some more drones into main and nat were saturated and then took a 3rd.

Then protoss moves out with 3 carriers stalkers and a mothership. I saved gas and build 11 corrupts as well as ling/roach but when he pushed they just didn't do enough to damage his army.

I think Proann's advice is fair enough. I did tell you voids are the most common response to it =P

But i dont think you shld allow him to transition into carrier though. With a Hydra army and creep high way, you shldnt let him get a 3rd. Protoss going carriers and mother ship on 2 base takes a crap load of time, so before u saturate ur 3rd, you shld poke around with hydras. If you catch him in the midst of transitioning, its almost a free win cos Hydra owns cannons and carriers when the number is small.

If you did dmg with the spines like you said and even countering his VRs which he invested alot into, you shld be far ahead. Check ur replay to see if there was indeed a time window where u could have actually won the game with ur hydras had you not waited.

[lolwut]

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

I think Proann's advice is fair enough. I did tell you voids are the most common response to it =P

But i dont think you shld allow him to transition into carrier though. With a Hydra army and creep high way, you shldnt let him get a 3rd. Protoss going carriers and mother ship on 2 base takes a crap load of time, so before u saturate ur 3rd, you shld poke around with hydras. If you catch him in the midst of transitioning, its almost a free win cos Hydra owns cannons and carriers when the number is small.

If you did dmg with the spines like you said and even countering his VRs which he invested alot into, you shld be far ahead. Check ur replay to see if there was indeed a time window where u could have actually won the game with ur hydras had you not waited.

Yeah I thought i saw a timing window so I attacked and wiped his army but my army died as well. About 3:30 mins later i attacked again and killed his army but 2-3 carriers+ an army intercepted my troops.

Guess i didn't make enough hydras for my 2nd push

Thank you for the advice

[Xzacutionar]

Shizz! you forgot the part where you trained on the korean servers :P :P :P

[aLtShortizz]

Updated with interview section!

[syfPhoenix]

you should add moar builds loving the roach ling all-in even if i did alter it to be less all-inish due me being overly macro heavy XD but overall thanks very muchly