[Elanshin]

Originally Posted by DemisodaSPR

This is true if you don't want to know whether:

- he's gas first
- which gas first he is
- he's a more all in 2 rax than 12/14
- he's 2 rax with proxy (only 1 rax and no gas in the main) [this one can be learned without timings though]

I disagree. Gas first is easily spotted even if you dont know the timings for barracks, you can click on the refinery and if theres anything more than about 30 gas mined when an orbital goes up its a gas first.

There is only 1 logical gas first build, which is going fast factory. Anything after that you cannot scout and knowing exact timings wont help you whatsoever if the terran is truly bent on keeping you in the dark.

If the terran has gone a variation of 11/11 (cut scv 2 rax), a simple glance at the mineral line will tell you what is up. 9scvs mining looks alot different to 13. There no need to know exact timing, just know that allinish 2 rax pressure is coming and react accordingly.

[DemisodaSPR]

Originally Posted by Elanshin

I disagree. Gas first is easily spotted even if you dont know the timings for barracks, you can click on the refinery and if theres anything more than about 30 gas mined when an orbital goes up its a gas first.

4 player maps and you can't rely on this. You need the timing.

There is only 1 logical gas first build, which is going fast factory. Anything after that you cannot scout and knowing exact timings wont help you whatsoever if the terran is truly bent on keeping you in the dark.

Factory or reaper. And yes, exact timings will help you, as they give you the agency to identify gas first no matter if you scout him last, which then forces you to adjust the build range you've estimated. If you don't know the timing and you scout him after 2:35 then you're forced to assume 12 rax 13 gas and you will play sub-optimally against him (unless you change absolutely nothing when playing with the knowledge that he's gas first). Sure you can remember things like "ok, for this particular map and last position scout if he has < X gas when my probe gets there he's gas firsT", but this is tedious as you have to memorise this for all the different maps.

If the terran has gone a variation of 11/11 (cut scv 2 rax), a simple glance at the mineral line will tell you what is up. 9scvs mining looks alot different to 13. There no need to know exact timing, just know that allinish 2 rax pressure is coming and react accordingly.

You do if you scout him after he's walled in the front. You need to know the timing of the first rax to know whether it's 12/X or 11/X. You can't rely on being able to count his SCVs on a 4 player map. I don't know if this is necessary for Toss or not.