[Unstable]

Originally Posted by iaguz

Lots of laddering. On occasion someone like pig, light, jimdiddy or whoever asks for some practice matches. Those are good, but not part of my usual "how does I get this build and transitions to work"

While you have a great mindset of practicing transitions, I feel you are under utilizing practice partners, ladder will never be as effective as correct practice with teammates/friends.

For example, you want to know build A vs reaction A,B,C,D,E so you practice 5 games, then you want to do the transition out of A. so then you have, A vs, A1,A2,A3 ALL of the different possibilities. You can grind this out in a day. This is how it is done because its the most effective, sure it sounds boring etc, but that's how when you see Koreans make instant decisions, its because they don't have to think they already have played every possible situations and practiced what the best response is.

Try the practice partner way and i guarantee your game will be boosted 100x higher. Even if you don't have a team to do it practice partners can be effective for this as well.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Originally Posted by Unstable

While you have a great mindset of practicing transitions, I feel you are under utilizing practice partners, ladder will never be as effective as correct practice with teammates/friends.

For example, you want to know build A vs reaction A,B,C,D,E so you practice 5 games, then you want to do the transition out of A. so then you have, A vs, A1,A2,A3 ALL of the different possibilities. You can grind this out in a day. This is how it is done because its the most effective, sure it sounds boring etc, but that's how when you see Koreans make instant decisions, its because they don't have to think they already have played every possible situations and practiced what the best response is.

Try the practice partner way and i guarantee your game will be boosted 100x higher. Even if you don't have a team to do it practice partners can be effective for this as well.

It's true that a dedicated team of practice partners who all play together and develop strategies and all that is effective. I think it's foolish to try and argue this with the coach of a team who did this and most probably did improve massively as a result of living together in Korea for a month or so. It's what the KOreans did in BW and SC2 and it's one big reason why they kill everyone.

But there's nothing wrong with thinking "hey this build might be fun" and throwing it out in the random swirling maelstrom of ladder games to see what happens to it when it is exposed to literally everything that can happen to it. Sometimes it's obvious "oh my blue flame drop tvp gets smashed if he opens Phoenix. That's quite obvious!", but there's also lots of subtleties that you can still get without having to grind out with specific people like "oh I"m adding marauders way too early into my TvT build" or "hey, this style looks like it'll be weak if I hit it like this".

And thanks to my KR account, I know I"ll never want for people of roughly equal or better skill value as me.

EDIT- one final thing. Ret said that most of his training for MLG and Bnet Euro invitational was ladder games with maybe some practice partnering. But he is Ret so w/e.

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by iaguz

It's true that a dedicated team of practice partners who all play together and develop strategies and all that is effective.

Don't forget, even with 1 or 2 ppl doing this you still get very effective practice, is it as good as a pro team environment? no. but its better than random laddering for sure!

Originally Posted by ke_ivan

The problem with this is that:
A) You need to have a practice partner;
B) You need a practice partner who understands the different builds well enough to help you;
C) You need a practice partner mechanically strong enough to execute those builds.

While your correct is you need a practice partner, its not a 1 way affair when it comes to practicing with someone, your points B and C can work effectively for both people, so they both get better at said strategy (works so much better for zerg players than other races) being on the receiving end of this practice too.

but overall remember, you dont NEED a pro team to do this, sure it will accelerate the process but even 1 practice partner can help be effective too.

[ke_ivan]

Originally Posted by Unstable

Don't forget, even with 1 or 2 ppl doing this you still get very effective practice, is it as good as a pro team environment? no. but its better than random laddering for sure!




While your correct is you need a practice partner, its not a 1 way affair when it comes to practicing with someone, your points B and C can work effectively for both people, so they both get better at said strategy (works so much better for zerg players than other races) being on the receiving end of this practice too.

but overall remember, you dont NEED a pro team to do this, sure it will accelerate the process but even 1 practice partner can help be effective too.

The thing is, you need a very good partner for this, because if you get an inferior partner, then your timings will be all wrong . Am I right to assume this?

[ke_ivan]

Originally Posted by Unstable

While you have a great mindset of practicing transitions, I feel you are under utilizing practice partners, ladder will never be as effective as correct practice with teammates/friends.

For example, you want to know build A vs reaction A,B,C,D,E so you practice 5 games, then you want to do the transition out of A. so then you have, A vs, A1,A2,A3 ALL of the different possibilities. You can grind this out in a day. This is how it is done because its the most effective, sure it sounds boring etc, but that's how when you see Koreans make instant decisions, its because they don't have to think they already have played every possible situations and practiced what the best response is.

Try the practice partner way and i guarantee your game will be boosted 100x higher. Even if you don't have a team to do it practice partners can be effective for this as well.

The problem with this is that:
A) You need to have a practice partner;
B) You need a practice partner who understands the different builds well enough to help you;
C) You need a practice partner mechanically strong enough to execute those builds.

So, for example, you want to play a TvT. You want to practice build A. That person will have to know how:
A) Build A works;
B) Have Build A1, A2, A3 etc.
C) Know how those builds unfold into late or end game
D) Mechanically execute those builds on your level of play.

Damn that's asking a lot! :O This is only available in a pro setting, I'm afraid. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Unstable.

I recommend playing by time or schedule. Like what so:

A) Play 2 hrs every day of the week for 5 days, using the same build (impt).
B) Take 1-2 hrs categorising play into race divisions and analysing that specific build against race match ups and what you can work on when going up against different builds.
C) Refine build.
D) Play again until comfortable.

This takes forever. But you will be very good at one build. For example, I always 1raxFE. Now, after a year of SC2, I know two branches of 1raxFE really well - 1raxFE into marine/tank and 1raxFE into marauder/ghost/viking. I know what to do for all-ins rushes, late game, research timings, attack timings, expansion timings etc. little things like that. So while I might be boring, I thoroughly understand my build and what to transition to in late game. I must've played 100 games with 1raxFE, and I still have problems with Protoss. It takes a while if you want to improve alone.