[noobinater]

Originally Posted by AlphaWhale

1You don't have to open crates and I think crate drops don't count towards your drop limit. They're on a separate counter. 2Honestly, all the weapon updates were terrible. The original backburner was ridiculous, the scout weapons were terrible (because vanilla scout is the best)

3I'm not a huge fan of the new weapons either (although I don't really care) but if you want to relive 2007 either get a time machine or play #tf2pug

4A lot of servers really frown on advertising trading in a non-trading servers and have been doing so in awhile.

5It isn't a whore if it's free (the game that is). All the Mann Co. Store items are just like extra fetishes in this dirty but desperate analogy.

1 Didn't know that.

2 Medic update was cool, Pyro was the most fun IMO (early BB was awesome to use and considering how popular the weapon is today, I wouldn't mind seeing it reintroduced, especially when you compare it to the OP/dumb shit they're giving soldier/demo). Fan is alright for run in run out style scout play.

3 The new weapons will still be loaded into memory regardless which is ridiculous when you consider how TF2 has grown several GB over years of updates. I used to run the game with almost everything maxed. Now it chugs on all low at times. Find me any other game that's done that over the course of its life span (and TF2 is no more than halfway through)

4 That this is even an issue speaks of the plummet in game design quality coming out of Valve
.
5 That part was referring to the aesthetically disgusting game tie-in unlocks.

Originally Posted by Dox

Well that comparison is just ridiculous, because no-one loaded up SC2 Beta on day 1 and went straight to Platinum (the highest league at the time) from placement. There's a distinct difference between NEW players and LESS SKILLED players. The elitists are failing to recognise this. You think just because a swarm of new players have decided to check the game out, that none of them will improve? Come on, you can't claim the game is THAT difficult.

What's the difference between "new" and "less skilled" players? A guy who doesn't know how to rally his workers because he's never played SC2 and a guy who doesn't know how to rally workers because he just doesn't care is bad either way. I'd rather play neither.

Regardless of the potential improvements you'll see from some of them, there will still be a steady influx of new/returning scrubs for the rest of the game's future (far greater than there would have been if it'd stayed even $2 to buy).

I don't want to play people who pose no challenge so I don't see how the comparison was ridiculous at all vOv

PS. Thanks for point tip btw, wish it was included as part of the posting GUI though.

[Dox]

Originally Posted by noobinater

What's the difference between "new" and "less skilled" players? A guy who doesn't know how to rally his workers because he's never played SC2 and a guy who doesn't know how to rally workers because he just doesn't care is bad either way. I'd rather play neither.

Come on, really? That's a frustratingly dense question/statement. If you want to know the difference, look at SC2 15 months ago vs SC2 now. People will improve and breathe new life into the game as their skills increase. New players are the key to a sustainable community. Give it another month (I'm being generous here, the game really doesn't have much of a skill ceiling), and half of the "scrubs" will have disappeared, and the rest will have improved. Now you've got the same "skilled" environment as before, except now the community is twice as large/active.

PS. Thanks for point tip btw, wish it was included as part of the posting GUI though.

You're not very good at this whole internet thing.

[noobinater]

Originally Posted by Dox

Come on, really? That's a frustratingly dense question/statement. If you want to know the difference, look at SC2 15 months ago vs SC2 now. People will improve and breathe new life into the game as their skills increase. New players are the key to a sustainable community. Give it another month (I'm being generous here, the game really doesn't have much of a skill ceiling), and half of the "scrubs" will have disappeared, and the rest will have improved. Now you've got the same "skilled" environment as before, except now the community is twice as large/active.


You're not very good at this whole internet thing.
:snip for post length:

However, unlike SC2, TF2 will have a higher rate of new players coming in (It's a free FPS compared to an $80 RTS) and as the game isn't skill ranked like SC2, the good players will still have to put up with their wasted server slots.

(TF2 used to be my favorite game for almost 2 years, I don't want to hate it but Valve is intent on making me and all the people I used to play with do so)


????

[AlphaWhale]

Originally Posted by noobinater

1If the game cost money the level of play would be higher

Please elaborate. TF2 is a FPS, they are not incredibly complicated. There's like a handful of knowledge and then the rest is up to your mouse hand dexterity. Perhaps people who are more likely to use their wallet (thus using their hands) are better at games?

TFC was free. Fortress Forever was free. TF2 is now free. The cycle is complete.

[noobinater]

Originally Posted by AlphaWhale

Please elaborate. TF2 is a FPS, they are not incredibly complicated. There's like a handful of knowledge and then the rest is up to your mouse hand dexterity. Perhaps people who are more likely to use their wallet (thus using their hands) are better at games?

TFC was free. Fortress Forever was free. TF2 is now free. The cycle is complete.

Not what I said but sure, I'll run with it.

The now constant influx of new players "giving it a try" would suggest a constant net decrease in player skill. Its still early days to say whether the retention rate of these newer players will have a long term benefits (more people staying long enough to get good than leaving). I'd wait till at least BF3 and COD8 come out, then see how the player volume is fairing.

Still, in the meantime there's no way to filter these scrubs so the decent players have to put up with their rubbish. Again; diamonds don't want to play with bronzers.

TFC isn't free, FF is a mod so it will always have a marginal playerbase (It will never be a DOTA or CS) and TF2 is a widely known free studio quality (eh..) FPS. Already the game has overtaken Counter Strike 1.6 as the most played game on steam (something I can't remember seeing in the last 4.5 years I've used the service).

I'd like to re-iterate a part of my post earlier a few people missed, as to why I'm not a fan of modern TF2:

Again, this all comes back to the purity and brilliance of the original TF2 (and early updates) and the way the newer content has pissed all over it.

If it's been a while or for what ever reason you haven't yet watched the developers commentary, please go do so. Go through all of it and listen to how they talk about the pains they went to to ensure TF2 was at release, the beautiful game it was. It was in development for so many years and went through so many revisions until they reached the final look and feel of the game. How they chose to remove grenades and other sub-par weapon designs because they cluttered the experience and detracted from the overall feel. Now they pile on ugly redundant shit every other week.