[faithHunter]

I'm pretty sure most of you have heard of MLG not having SC2 for MLG Colombus. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=424509) Mostly because they pay Blizzard for the priviledge of holding a SC2 tournament, and that other games are paying them to have their games on MLG. I know this by itself isn't a concrete reason that Starcraft 2's popularity has declined since the probable reason why MLG dropped the game out is because of financial purposes even though the tweet said that "SC2 doesn't fit into MLG's roster of games anymore", but IMO its a start.

But we all know this isn't the start of Starcraft 2's decline in esports. If you compare the viewer count on twitch for LoL and SC2, you will see that there is a huge difference in viewer count most of the time, especially when LCS is on (the viewer count averages around 120k-150k I believe), meanwhile WCS streams hits only a maximum of 50k-60k viewers, and thats only when there are fan favorites playing. I didn't get to watch the recent WCS Korea finals, unfortunately, mainly because I'm on a modem right now, so I don't know the exact average viewer count on that stream. (Can someone fill me in on this?)

Starcraft 2 used to dominate and LoL used to drool at the popularity SC2 had. Why does it seem backwards now? That's the question that I had in my mind for some time. And this is how I feel what is causing the problem:

The game isn't that fun anymore. To play at least.

Grinding games endlessly on ladder isn't that fun if you keep on losing. It's even worse if you feel that you were ahead in a game and then fast forward a couple of minutes, you proceed to lose a game because of a simple misclick. And this is why "casual players" myself included, don't find this game that fun to play anymore. Starcraft 2 is a hard game to get into, and why would anyone pay a total of 60-80$ just for the sake of playing the (not that great) campaign and keep on getitng owned at multiplayer where the game claims to excel in because of small mistakes? Why go through all that when you can just own players on easier, f2p games where you can play with your friends and not lose your head and the game over a single, yet stressful mistake, and actually have fun? (LoL, DOTA 2, CS:GO, etc)
Apparently I'm not the only one in the entire world who feels that SC2 is declining. And it has been for quite a while.

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9573549105
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9628392767
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=424677

I'm pretty sure most of you already read those posts. But for the sake of discussion I'm going to link them anyway. Now I want to ask you guys the following: Is SC2 really declining as an esport? Has SC2 fallen far from where it had stood once in the face of esports? If so, what could we do as a community to help out SC2's esports scene?

/rant, start discussion
P.S. wow my english is bad.

[carmour]

Logical fallacys

You say SC2 popularity is declining yet you compare it to different games. This gives no useful point of reference. Maybe if you were to compare WoL stream numbers to HotS stream numbers.

You cite MLG dropping sc2 from their list of tourny games but also explain that it's due financial reasons between blizz and MLG, not due to the games popularity.

I personally think HotS revitalised the game to make it much more entertaining for the viewier. There are possibly some balance issues but they are minor in the scheme of things.

The main barrier to sc2's popularity is exactly what makes it so good IMO. It's a pretty complicated game with a high skill ceiling and barriers to entry. When you compare it to LoL it's so much harder to just pick up and play. It's also more of a 1v1 game than a team game. It also costs money. I really don't see a big problem with the scene.

There's tonnes of tourneys and SC2 content and a pretty big viewership for this type of game. For some reason people in the sc2 community like to play doomsday and bitch and moan about everything

my 2c..

Quick Comments

Matt93:

basically this, SC2 not being the #1 esport title doesn't mean SC2 is dead/dying.

[Ice714]

From what I read earlier it hasn't been confirmed as yet, still a possibility?

Could have been updated I am not sure

[nGenLight]

Breaking Bad and American Idol,

Which show is more popular? Which do you like better? Which show appeals to the general public? Which show is more of a niche (like RTS is)?

SCII is the face of RTS and as long as there are people who are into RTS, SCII will continue to thrive.

[RicocheT]

Yes MOBAs are the juggernauts of this generation. Simple as that. Take CSGO cannot compete with LoL/DotA, and also fight with the failures who play CoD. But ultimately it's one of the two/three competitive FPS games out there. In comparison, you're talking about SC2, which has NO EQUAL in the RTS scene nor does it really have a competitor. So while a lot of people will watch LoL/DotA2, don't assume SC2 is dying because of low viewer counts. Stream views don't mean everything.

[eCKo`Switch]

You compare SC2 to another (Completely different, I might add) game that is currently the largest eSport in terms of numbers, and has been since it gained popularity quite a while ago. SC2 isn't declining in terms of viewer numbers compared to its past (And from the last time I saw numbers being quoted on SotG a while ago, it is actually increasing). The fact that there is a bigger game does not mean that the game is dying.

Starcraft 2 has not decreased in size, but rather eSports has increased in size. Get over it.


Also:

Originally Posted by faithHunter

The game isn't that fun anymore. To play at least.

ok, m8. sure.

Quick Comments

	Snx.FigJig:	Don't have to act sarcastic because he doesn't find sc2 fun, it's his opinion.
	faithHunter:	good points, slapped some sense into me

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by eCKo`Switch

The fact that there is a bigger game does not mean that the game is dying.

I think it does, maybe not dying as in critically, but slowly starving out, when you factor in sponsorship, teams and tournaments. If companies had to pick between sponsoring the bigger game with a bigger fanbase and sponsoring a smaller, harder, game that has a big fanbase but not as big as the other game, which one do you think they will pick? Maybe some companies may expect the smaller game to overthrow the bigger game in the future and then take a risk and invest there, but I think that most companies will sponsor the bigger game. With the lack of sponsorship, in the long run, then tournaments will start to die out, so will the fanbase, and so will the game.

It's great that esports is expanding and such, but I feel that right now its a shame that Starcraft 2 is no longer the no1 game in the esports scene. Again, that's just my personal opinion. Could be better and more airtight but meh.

Quick Comments

Snx.Mufasa:

:(

[carmour]

Originally Posted by faithHunter

I think it does, maybe not dying as in critically, but slowly starving out, when you factor in sponsorship, teams and tournaments. If companies had to pick between sponsoring the bigger game with a bigger fanbase and sponsoring a smaller, harder, game that has a big fanbase but not as big as the other game, which one do you think they will pick? Maybe some companies may expect the smaller game to overthrow the bigger game in the future and then take a risk and invest there, but I think that most companies will sponsor the bigger game. With the lack of sponsorship, in the long run, then tournaments will start to die out, so will the fanbase, and so will the game.

It's great that esports is expanding and such, but I feel that right now its a shame that Starcraft 2 is no longer the no1 game in the esports scene. Again, that's just my personal opinion. Could be better and more airtight but meh.

From a marketing point of view, which audience is more likely to buy the product/service you are advertising for? The one who is watching a game which COSTS money, which usually you have to pay to get good quality streams for, or the one where the stream and the games are all free. From an advertisers point of view SC2 is still profitable and good to use as a platform for marketing and advertising in terms of sponsorship or ads.

[FSJhedjuka]

I feel that people by and large have underestimated the value of other games in the market. MOBA and FPS games saturating Twitch with viewers are a very good thing for SC2 as a competitive e-sport. Sponsors by and large, are not grass-roots companies, they are multi million dollar corporations, and as far as opportunities go, many of them will jump on a major tournament that offers a number of the above mentioned games.

The fact is clear from Twitch viewer statistics over the last 5 years (paraphrasing DJ-Wheat here) but with the introduction of MOBAs and a variety of tournaments on offer across all platforms we have a greatly expanded viewer-base from the average of 6000-7000 in WoL when HuK beat Moon in Dreamhack - when SC2 basically had monopoly on the tournament scene - to 20,000 for WCS now. Starcraft is far from dying, it is thriving!

Will SC2 ever be number 1 again? No. Is it dead and buried? No! The more people watch MOBAs on Twitch, the more people can discover SC2 and enjoy the love that we all share for the game

[eCKo`Switch]

Originally Posted by Snx.FigJig

Don't have to act sarcastic because he doesn't find sc2 fun, it's his opinion.

He stated it as though it was fact. I worded that the way I did so that he knew that he was posting on a site where 90% of the members will probably disagree.

Originally Posted by faithHunter

a smaller, harder, game that has a big fanbase but not as big as the other game

Again, you're comparing it to another game. And you clearly understand that SC2 has a big fanbase. SC2 doesn't need to be the ESPORTS BIG DOG to make it sustainable. You say you're worried that SC2 is going to get "starved out" by the other games for sponsorship, and Jhedjuka pretty much said what i would have - these companies get on board major tournaments and teams no matter what the platform. They don't just open Twitch, see LoL with more viewers at that moment and throw money at the screen. They know that they can get a good ROI from any of the major games. SC2 is THE major RTS, and that is highly unlikely to change any time soon.

If you want to see a "dying" game, look at HoN. It's been "dying" since beta over 3 years ago, and still thrives in its niche, despite being less than a quarter of the size of SC2 with 1/100th of the outside sponsorship that SC2 does. People still play it (The community is fiercely passionate about their game), it's still in Dreamhack, and it still has a really interesting competitive scene. Not to mention, it falls under the same genre as the current two largest games. The sky has been falling for them for 3 years and it still hasn't hit the ground yet.

[FLuX]

I love this game.

**** the haters and the nay-sayers. StarCraft 2 will continue.

Quick Comments

syfMightyKiwi:

you tell 'em sister

[Fenner]

http://www.google.com.au/trends/expl...aft%202&cmpt=q

Quick Comments

	FLuX:	RIP StarCraft 2: Dead since August 2010
	Snx.FigJig:	Not sure if intended but that supports OP lol

[FLuX]

Originally Posted by fray`fenner

http://www.google.com.au/trends/expl...aft%202&cmpt=q

http://www.google.com.au/trends/expl...legends&cmpt=q

Checkmate E-Sports. Starcraft 2 confirmed worst game

[syfNaMeK]

I find all these Starcraft is dying threads stupid and irrelevant. Most of these cases I see about this topic are from people who have just lost interest in the game themselves. Just because these few have lost interest dose not mean the majority of people have as well. The game is still thriving and growing.

Yeah games like League of Legends have more viewers but that just means it has more viewers not Starcraft is dying. For example, Soccer is most likely to be the worlds most popular sport, this does not mean all the other sports like basketball, tennis or cricket are dead or dying.

I hope what I have said here makes sense. I suck at explaining things I'm trying to say haha

Quick Comments

sR.Kumo:

Makes sense, and I agree ;P

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by eCKo`Switch

He stated it as though it was fact. I worded that the way I did so that he knew that he was posting on a site where 90% of the members will probably disagree.

In my defense I only said I think I know the answer, and that its only my opinion in general. But if people see it that way then I'll reword it.

Also in light of the replies people gave to me I'm now convinced that SC2 isn't dying at all actually. Rather just has a competition now. Seeing stuff from another point of view thanks to the replies

Quick Comments

Snx.Mufasa:

.....

[TtSYF.tRoy]

SC2 isn't dead, eSports is just growing.

[Mayo]

If you're comparing all games to LoL, they're all dead.

LoL pulls in massive numbers!

[mGGJuggerGOOSE]

Starcraft 2 is still better then DotA and LoL, even they admit our game is for superior RTS players. Just think of MOBA Players as the people who couldnt cut it in a real game ^_^

EDIT: Mayo: Game elitism is bad

Maybe... but its still fun to bag out AFL ^_^

Quick Comments

	Mayo:	Game elitism is bad
	faithHunter:	imba sc2 koreans nerf plox

[teddyoojo]

Originally Posted by mGGAbyssal

Starcraft 2 is still better then DotA and LoL, even they admit our game is for superior RTS players. Just think of MOBA Players as the people who couldnt cut it in a real game ^_^

everyone who couldnt cut it as artistic gymnast went into rugby

Quick Comments

mGGJuggerGOOSE:

You bagging out Rugby?

[SLCN.Wally]

I like this game it is fun