[Flamga]

Originally Posted by fray`Petraeus

I really disagree with the no foreigner rule. I remember when Balloon won the 6th Weekly, he didn't sign up for any more for a while because a lot people hated Koreans coming in and winning SEA tournaments. I however, think the competition and variety is great. Sure we saw Value demolish the Zergs in the last 3 tournaments he played in but Rossi went 3-2 against him in games. Its not like these tournaments attract the highest levels of Koreans. I just think its sad that when the Koreans win they're "stealing our money" but this accusation would never be made if mOOnGLaDe started playing (and winning) these tournys.
I respect the fact that this is your tournament now, Baldie, but I do hope you will reconsider this rule!

Yea I did something similar a while ago requesting people to sign up with their ingame name and also their actual ID, so if someone like that played, we would know and seed them appropriately so we dont get early knockouts. With this signup method its just a matter of balancing but I think Baldie mentioned the point system to me and how it works so I think this shouldnt be a problem.

As for no foreigners, I disagree however I can understand where you come from, maybe we should leave this judgement to the guys that are higher up and usually get high in the brackets. In the end its only those people that are effected, unless of course they are being annoying admin wise >.<

Quick Comments

TidaL:

Pet does usually get high in the brackets

[iM MaFia]

Originally Posted by fray`Petraeus

I really disagree with the no foreigner rule. I remember when Balloon won the 6th Weekly, he didn't sign up for any more for a while because a lot people hated Koreans coming in and winning SEA tournaments. I however, think the competition and variety is great. Sure we saw Value demolish the Zergs in the last 3 tournaments he played in but Rossi went 3-2 against him in games. Its not like these tournaments attract the highest levels of Koreans. I just think its sad that when the Koreans win they're "stealing our money" but this accusation would never be made if mOOnGLaDe started playing (and winning) these tournys.
I respect the fact that this is your tournament now, Baldie, but I do hope you will reconsider this rule!

The history of koreans playing in SEA tourneys leads way back to the early masters cups, don't think u were around then..but the rule got implemented after Soulman and KingKong won like back to back MC's (5 in a row). This is basically to stop that from repeating...

We will still have healthy competition with every 4th week being an international field, so you will still get to see SEA vs Foreign players battle it out.

Also Rossi went 2-0, 0-2, 1-2 ? That doesn't add up to 3-2. It's kind of retarded when you compare some korean to glade, since glade has actually been part of the SEA scene and community forever.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

Umm.. I don't think that was the comparison he was going for...

[ROOTPetraeus]

Originally Posted by iM mafia

The history of koreans playing in SEA tourneys leads way back to the early masters cups, don't think u were around then..but the rule got implemented after Soulman and KingKong won like back to back MC's (5 in a row). This is basically to stop that from repeating...

We will still have healthy competition with every 4th week being an international field, so you will still get to see SEA vs Foreign players battle it out.

Also Rossi went 2-0, 0-2, 1-2 ? That doesn't add up to 3-2. It's kind of retarded when you compare some korean to glade, since glade has actually been part of the SEA scene and community forever.

I think there is a much smaller skill gap than back in the early tournaments you are referring to.

When I was talking about Rossi, I was talking about his run in the Silcon Sports Cup. (you can't play 7 games in one tourny lol)

I really don't understand your last point. The argument with not letting Koreans join is that they win a lot of our tournaments and in some peoples opinion "steal our money". From my understanding this has nothing to do with how long they have been in the SEA scene. There is no need to use insults when trying to prove a point =/

Quick Comments

iM MaFia:

rossi went 3-4 vs him in silicon cup

[iM MaFia]

Originally Posted by fray`Petraeus

I think there is a much smaller skill gap than back in the early tournaments you are referring to.

When I was talking about Rossi, I was talking about his run in the Silcon Sports Cup.

I really don't understand your last point. The argument with not letting Koreans join is that they win a lot of our tournaments and in some peoples opinion "steal our money". From my understanding this has nothing to do with how long they have been in the SEA scene. There is no need to use insults when trying to prove a point =/

My last point is fairly obvious, obviously ppl can't complain if a sea guy wins a sea tournament.

Quick Comments

ROOTPetraeus:

learn to read

[Baldie]

People saying stuff re SEA vs International

+ [Response] +

The best analogy I can come to is if you compare this to traditional sports.

Say you are 17 years old and play football. You play U18's at a club and if you are good enough can represent your state or even country. In other words their are different tiers of play available pending skill.

Let's say I am good enough to represent my state at a national level. It would be inappropriate and unfair for my team to play at a social level game. Sure we could do it but ultimately it wouldn't be fun for us as it would be too easy and it wouldn't be fun for the social guys who get demolished each week.

It's similar with this. It is important to fuel a local community competition and have that prospering before you expand it internationally. It would be like playing 4 rounds at a national level in football and then every 5th week playing a showmatch against another country on an international stage. You would be the under-dogs most likely but the experience you gain could be invaluable. You may get thrashed but it's not something that happens every week and you are close enough in skill to put up a fight (unlike social level).

I think the top tier of SEA is well capable of going toe to toe with some the rest of the world no doubt. However there are few who are willing to go into a tournament knowing they will have to gauntlet through internationals. Would people's opinions on international still be the same if half the tournament became Koreans. I think people are more willing to put up with Koreans in weeklies because the investment in trying to get SEA Power Points is worth it.

Alike America's situation at the moment the Koreans come to MLGs and other major events (even play in Playem's now) and wipe the floor. So the higher end of America just go to events knowing they will have to fight koreans all through the bracket. There is few competitions specific to America which allow them to play each other, develop story lines and personality. It's go to a local event and lose.

I am not fixed in having weeklies SEA but I again emphasise the importance of developing your local scene without opening the flood gates to koreans every event.

Until more SEA only events show up, I think it is important I take a lead role in strengthening the local scene. If there becomes an abundance of SEA only events I will happily open the wT events to an international set of events.

This is a trial like anything and if it turns out to be not a wise decision I will be quick to revert the changes.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

Good response.. 100% agree!

[Lukan]

Lukan.449 thankyou

[Fourby]

frayFourby.534

[syfChadMann]

Well I agree that a conglomerate name needs to be found - but wT is a distant memory, you've paid tribute.

Anyway, I actually like the SEA only rule - as long as it is a rotation thing, so sometimes there are SEA only and sometimes there are international tournaments. Lookin' good wT friends

[Flamga]

Originally Posted by fray`ChadMann

Well I agree that a conglomerate name needs to be found - but wT is a distant memory, you've paid tribute.

Anyway, I actually like the SEA only rule - as long as it is a rotation thing, so sometimes there are SEA only and sometimes there are international tournaments. Lookin' good wT friends

Actually I did have a thought, maybe the SEA weekly for those tournies that are SEA residents only, and then the SEA International for the Majors to distinguish between the two

[syfChadMann]

Yeah something like that..

I'll go into detail as to why I like SEA online format from time to time. We all love the big names coming in and testing out our players. Even if they are B-Team Korean's that demolish our scene T_T But sometimes, as a spectator - I want to see where everyone in SEA is at against each other. Makes for better stories in the lead up to LAN events and develops SEA Rivalries. Plus I feel more engaged in the players when I'm watching on stream - feel like I can appreciate the play knowing most players styles and strengths. Ofc when some gosu Korean comes along - I can certainly appreciate their abilities also!

Anyway, just my 2c - wT weekly is such a great event, wish you guys the best of luck and look forward to many solid events throughout the year!

[UHF]

Please note due to popular community demand wT Weeklies will now be SEA RESIDENTS ONLY.
wT Majors will still be open internationally.

Also, you'll probably see a larger influx of internationals, as a lot of NA and Korean weekly's have closed down (hence why we've seen players like Major, jookto, Arthur, Value, STGolden, etc)

[TCPLemminks]

TCPLemminks.185

I'm sort of torn with the new rule to be honest. I'm playing in this for the experience of losing.

[SLCN.Kez]

Just to clarify, a "sea resident" is someone living in sea? or someone from sea birth/nationality/residence? Ie. Can targa play from europe, can someone like pig/mafia/glade play from korea, can king kong play from brisbane or no since hes korean etc etc

[iM MaFia]

Originally Posted by Kez

Just to clarify, a "sea resident" is someone living in sea? or someone from sea birth/nationality/residence? Ie. Can targa play from europe, can someone like pig/mafia/glade play from korea, can king kong play from brisbane or no since hes korean etc etc

i'd say if u lived in SEA for 6 months in the last year u would be considered a sea resident

[SLCN.Kez]

Whilst I can easily see the reason for not wishing to have koreans in every SEA tournament, due to reasons like how they rofl stomp at MLG's etc, I still feel like its a bit of a cop out to simply say "oh sea people only then". The analogy with u18 football etc doesn't really hold up, as this is a tournament for money, that of course people want to win. I could be wrong, but I don't believe u18's etc get paid, and if they do get paid money, its a salary and not income from winnings. Whilst yes it would be unfair for a state/international team to rofl stomp a local club who plays for fun, if you are in this scene and competing in TOURNAMENTS where a lot of the reason people play is to win and get better, denying competition simply because they are better is a wrong judgement call.

If we had b teamer koreans playing and not winning, this wouldn't even be an issue. Shit, if we didn't know they were koreans and just some new sea dude winning every single tournament it would still be a similar story of "Oh this guy is winning everything and now people don't want to enter tournaments because they know it will be hard and they'll lose". For this reason the rule was implemented in masters cup that you couldn't win 2 or 3 back to back tournaments.

I feel this is the point Pet was trying to make. It's not that its koreans, or any pro foreigner for that matter, that is doing well in these tournaments, the problem is that SOMEONE are dominating the tournaments, thus making it a less enjoyable experience for others since they feel they have no shot at winning.
Whilst this is actually a real problem, as hope is about the sole driving force of the human race (woah that escalated quickly) we do still have to remind ourselves that this is a competitive and cut throat scene where the best players who wish to play should be rewarded, and not ridiculed because they are doing well. There are plenty of bsgpd tournaments, and even other various tournaments that are more for enjoyment (ie.local lans, 4v4, off race, even clan wars) for people who just want to have some competitive fun.

However like I've said in various other threads do with questions arising from admin ruling, YOU are still the admin and it is YOUR tournament. Discussion should be had, but if, at the end of the day, you have decided on a ruling because you truly feel its for the betterment of the scene, I will absolutely go along with it, no questions asked, and I feel others should do the same.

[Baldie]

This discussion is great. More people speaking of it is better. In regards to being my tournament - partly yes. However I want to do the best for the greater community so although I might have the final say any community feedback is of up most importance to me.

Perhaps it is a topic worthy of discussion on SEA Podcast Kez? The situation as a whole not specific to wT Weekly/Major. I'm sure there is a lot to discuss.

Your comment about limiting back to back wins sounds like a halfway solution between SEA and Internationals.

Also Chadmann around calling it SEA Weekly and SEA International is probably the closest appropriate branding change I have heard. There is a lot of passion still in for wT as a tribute and yes I do agree a branding change with the new layout would make sense given Cute still contributes and as one of the founders I will make sure any decisions are cleared with him.

[SLCN.Kez]

Yeah was definitely thinking about having it on the podcast, was gonna ask the other dudes opinions on if it should be, but i think they'll say yes (they better )

[Fenner]

frayFenner.158

[nGenLight]

iMLight.673

[asdfSchnitzel]

ToRSchnitzel.Numberaboveandstuff^