[|Erasmus|]

I just want to ask you atlas, to please explain how a Planetary Fortress works... you can't build scvs when you are morphing your command center, so it is not linearly producing defence separately from economy.

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Cyanide:

i like where you are going with this

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

I just want to ask you atlas, to please explain how a Planetary Fortress works... you can't build scvs when you are morphing your command center, so it is not linearly producing defence separately from economy.

Damn, I can't give you rep.

But at least someone here is thinking instead of having fun just ing.

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

I just want to ask you atlas, to please explain how a Planetary Fortress works... you can't build scvs when you are morphing your command center, so it is not linearly producing defence separately from economy.

Didn't he ask for something similar (to a PF) for zerg and protoss? i can't remember through all these pages now D;

FOR SYMMETRY! HARMONIC BALANCE! love man, love.

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|Erasmus|:

Cause he thinks zergs already have a problem with cutting workers to produce defense ;)

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

for someone who is clearly an art 101 you don't understand what you are talking about
Picaso was famous for doing the exact opposite but is one of the most famous artists on the planet

Instead of trying to use unrelated concepts to back up your concept (and even asking others to do what you repeatedly refuse to do by giving evidence) try thinking how that would affect gameplay.

Picaso played Random irl, please keep up.

*gently pats you*

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

ZergGirl, I don't think you are taking this seriously.

Quick catch up. Atlas suggests that he thought that Zerg needed a defensive upgrade for the Hatchery in BW and then Blizzard went and gave Terrans Planetary Fortress. He wants to take that from Terrans and give it to Zerg. Personally I think it would look weird with this giant mechanical turret sitting on the top of a Hatch, but that's just me.

Picaso did play Random because it's the only race worth playing.

Another question I did think Atlas, though please answer it after you've answered my previous questions...

Why do Zerg need help if the general public fear a Zergling Rush, but not a Marine Rush?

[mGGDaedalus]

Starcraft is not art! Its a fricken video game!

[Tom]

RRRRRRRRED IMBA. Blue is fine.

[ZergGirl]

you CAN argue that SC2 is art.

And the reason why people fear a Zergling rush and not a Marine rush... is because Blizzard changed the timings on said Marine rush, it is no longer scary.

One could say the new timings have created a more harmonic balance amongst the plebs.

*nods sagely*

[Bugalugs McScruffin]

ZergGirl, that was a very sagely nod. I do question how the could be a harmonic balance, since Altas here has pointed out that there is no... what was it... inverse symmetry between Terran and Zerg.

Also, Tom has some very good discussions on balance (this thread does not qualify) and so I'd believe him is he says red is imbalanced. Personally I thought it sucked that blue always starts in offence first, but I'm not the balance wizz Tom is.

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ZergGirl:

ty, i've been feeling rather sagey lately.

[syfMiley]

I think Tom has the right idea here.

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	ZergGirl:	not funny at all :(
	TADivinity:	Zerggirl is on her period. I got you bro.

[AtlasMeCH]

Hopefully this post can sum things up...

Yes, I realize that the planetary fortress interrupts terran's economy, however, the queen can be viewed in a similar way in that it interrupts teching to lair.

But lets now consider the strangeness when you compare a queen to a spine crawler.

Queen 150 minerals,
Spine Crawler 100 minerals

Queen 2 control
Spine crawler 1 control (drone sacrifice)

Queen 175 life
Spine Crawler 300 life

Queen 4/9 damage
Spine crawler 20 damage

But the queen is 150 minerals and the spine crawler is 100? WHAT, THE, HELL?

Now tell me, how does it really make sense that just because the queen has mobility and can attack air/ground that it should actually cost 150 minerals when the power is so much less?

Consider a Spine Crawler AND a Spore crawler together in comparison to the queen if you want to...

The spore crawler has 400 hit points...

The end result is queen 150 mineral 2 control 175 life, compared to the 175 cost 2 control 700 life of spine/spore.

And you wouldn't even want to compare the damage because the queen pales in comparison immensely.

So how can the queen only cost 25 minerals less overall, but be that much worse?

Apparently the queen costs 150 minerals simply because it is mobile and casts spawn larvae? What?

So yes, having the pool be able to upgrade to a defensive structure doesn't effect economy i get it, but I don't think you can cast transfusion on a hatchery and so I don't think you would be able to cast transfusion on the pool in the way that Terran repair their bunker...

Moving on...

If the ability to morph the spawning pool in to a defensive structure is not the choice, then I believe that linear production of defense from the spawning pool is.

Remember, terran have reactors now for doubling marine production out put, and protoss have crono boost. Even though zerg would be producing defense separately from from economy with out drone sacrifice, you still wouldn't be able to match your defensive production to terran and protoss' offensive out put when you factor the reactor and crono boost.

This is how it makes the game interesting as it forces zerg to make offense to defend in cooperation with their defense... but the offensive reaction is slightly stronger then before because of the minerals that were able to be saved being able to produce defense linearly from the spawning pool.

Blizzard was searching for a Reactive Power for zerg if you remember they had Reactive Larvae in the game and then they scratched the idea because clearly it didn't work for some reason unless they were saving it for HOTS.

Now, going back to HANDFISHES video... the main theme and the overall point of it is The Significance of Doubling.

Now, since protoss would have crono boost which enhances the speed of production out put by 20% and terran have the reactor which increases marine out put by 100%, perhaps there might be some kind of unique some kind of ability that would enhance the defensive linear production of the spawning pool by 10%.

Technically, because the reactor costs 50/50 minerals, we can just say that marine production out put is enhanced by 80%... so imagine the following values...

10%, 20%, and 80%

Now clearly 10+10 = 20, but 20 + 20 = 40... where is the doubling factor?

The doubling factor is in the multiplier... first multiplying by 2 and then by 4.

So 10 is doubled, but then 20 is quadrupled.

10% Defense Zerg
20% Offense Protoss
80% offense Terran

This is, in my view, Proportional Harmony... and promotes ACTUAL balance.

Anyways, that's my theory and interpretation.

[Satu]

In the interest of making this thread easier to scroll through, Im replying to the post above this one. That is one hell of a quote to be in my post...

1. Queens have more uses than as a defensive unit, I remember telling you that a few pages ago. Its not absurd, queens are much more useful than spines. Before you try to prove me wrong on that, read a few pages back.

2. You can transfuse hatcheries or any other zerg buildings. Try to at least know whatt you're talking about before trying to prove its imbalanced.

3. Zerg can make more hatcheries and have an immense amount of production, terran and protoss don't outmatch zerg in this respect, its impossible to say otherwise, unless the zerg is playing incorrectly or the terran or protoss is doing an allin strategy.

Because your points and evidence were incorrect, your conclusion isnt correct either. You havent summed anything worth reading up, try again and get it correct if you want to actually convince anyone you're right.

[syfMiley]

That post did not clear anything up, my head still hurts.

[Meatex]

I have no idea what the point is any more
So many incorrect claims and false assumptions i just can't fallow anymore

[BaKaiNu]

Thread is going nowhere. Closed for the sake of humanity.

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	NvRossi:	i see no reason why this thread should be closed?
	nirvAnA:	agree with the close, thread ran its course twenty times over