[Lokth]

Currently sitting happily in mid - high diamond but have hit a wall in PvZ. Currently my win rate in the match up is about 40% compared to 60% of the other two match ups.

It just feels like this match up is so favored towards the zerg now that there is little a toss can do to win if the game lasts more then 15 minutes. Taking 3 bases is nigh impossible with some of the new maps now that mutas are more powerful then ever, likewise the new ling hydra style will decimate any army that hasnt gone for colossus and if you some how manage to get it to late game viper / hydra makes quick work of all your units unless you have amazing Templar micro.

Ironically there seems to be little info on this match up. There where only 2 PvZ series's in MLG last weekend, one resulting in a loss, the other won with 2 base all ins (which is what im currently doing); teamliquid has no current threads on the matchup and all the info I can find basically says, 2 base all in is pretty much it.

It feels that with all the awesome new stuff toss got in HOTS none of it is actually useful in this matchup outside of the MS core as the new changes to zerg indirectly counter them.

Any help with this matchup would be appreciated.

Quick Comments

Zepph:

Post some replays

[Malice]

Check out the pvz games from the beta on YouTube. Idra vs MInigun game 3 qualifier for MLG is a good one to watch. Or Protoss player streams help too.

Opening Phoenix into colossus while keeping your Phoenix alive should help your problem with mutas. You should be able to scout it, as they should go hydra -----> mutas then just drop another stargate and a fleet beacon and get range.
Once you get a decent amount of Phoenix with range,
Mutas are extremely easy to micro against.

Quick Comments

	Lokth:	Everytime I tried a stargate strat I would get overrun by roaches :(
	Stallion:	stally streaming daily atm ;)

[Lokth]

Couple of replays added as requested. Dont have any late game ones as I havent had a pvz hit late game in a long time now; when it does hit late game I tend to be crushed by either ultras or viper / hydra.

http://drop.sc/312455 - All in win
http://drop.sc/312457 - All in win
http://drop.sc/312458 - Loss, needed more gates
http://drop.sc/312456 - Loss

It really feels that the match up isn't mine to win, but the zerg players to lose. No matter what I do the zerg will win unless he is the one who reacts incorrectly, he needs to make mistakes to lose, played correctly he will win everytime.

[SLCN.Kez]

If youre sitting mid-high diamond it means your macro probably sucks ass and need to improve it. No strategy will work if your macro is bad, which is why youre just losing to someone who makes a nice strong army comp like roaches, with better macro. A good opener is phoenix into 3 bases into colossi, and just about every protoss is doing this on ladder. Just play defensively with your units, making sure you add gateways and have enough sentries/good ff's, and always making probes + pylons. With your phoenix to scout shit, mo core + sentry immortal plus rallying colossi you should be fine to defend roaches or see a muta transition coming

[Lokth]

do you have a replay / vod I can look at for this?

[Stallion]

if really stuck maybe get some coaching, if you don't want to pay go to someones stream and watch, i know Frustration, Blysk and I are both stream fairly regularly atm so come ask us questions we don't mind

Quick Comments

TragicHero:

Dat plugging

[Lokth]

Im really getting over this; what the hell am I supposed to do? I have been at diamond in wol and I never had issues vs zerg, the match up felt fair, if I lost it was because I stuffed up or was out played. Now it feels like there really is nothing i can do to win outside of cheeseing.

Seriously thinking about quitting over this, the match up is so terribly imbalanced, almost impossible to get a 3rd on some of the new maps, and even harder to defend it.

http://drop.sc/312833 - me trying sg opening, 90% of my attempts have ended up something like this; there is no ******* way to deal with this shit. /rage.

Hell I dont even get angry over games but this is driving me up the wall.

[mGGSouth]

first thing, there are some pretty big gaps in probe production from 5-7 minutes,

You lose 2 phoenix and oracle for nothing at 12.30 at the same time you're floating 2500 minerals, you should have started a 3rd + sim city ages ago.

At 20 mins you have 6 colli, 24 zealots, 11 sentries and 5 phoenix against someone going mutas? to answer you're question of what the hell are you supposed to do? make stalkers and get blink!!! maybe get some high temp for storm.

this game had nothing to do with hots changes, your macro was bad, ur 3rd was terribly late and ur unit composition was just wtf.

take a look at this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=287788 and do a bit of work on your macro and I guarantee you that youll be fine.

also I have been having a lot of success with 3 gate sentry expo (80%+ win rate) so id suggest giving that a try. just expand off 3 sentries and a zealot, if hes got lots of slings delay it a bit, scout with hallicuantion then do some pressure with 7 sentries a Cpl of zealots and msc, try take down his 3rd and recall once he has a decent number of units, from there transition into void colli stalker sentry as you take a 3rd.