[Bloodmyst]

Hey fellow Terrans,

Now that I've finally got my new PC and started to get my SC2 on again. I'm finding that I'm not liking the standard Marine/Tank in T v T anymore.

So now, I'm trying to find a high level replay where Ghosts are used instead of tanks. I'm assuming Marauders would also be included here to help combat tank play from the opponent. I understand snipe is pretty much useless in regards to sniping off marines, but I instead want to use them for Nukes.

Are any of you Terrans currently using such builds? Or do you know of any which I could review to check out this style of play?

Also, for any high GM/M Terran players who may be reading this. Why don't Terrans generally make use of nukes mid game? Considering the potential amount of damage one nuke is capable of. I really only see nuke usage late game nowadays.

[iMSystem]

Generally speaking your looking at bio focused play, where ghosts only really come into the end-game for nukes, as if your maxed on 200/200 and your opponent (who is going mech or some variation of biomech) is maxed as well, there is no way in hell you are going to trade efficiently to cause an attack.

Instead, this is where nukes come in handy, Nuke range I believe is 10(?) If you can get in and start nuking the siege lines of your opponent you will not only force him to un-siege and retreat, but also add an element of extra work to his list. (This is where you can get lucky with the nukes)

By forcing un-siege of his tanks, you can them go stim run in and deal more efficient damage (Still might not be worth it though, depending on what else he has lurking behind the initial few tanks :P)

[Crankenstein]

Originally Posted by System

Generally speaking your looking at bio focused play, where ghosts only really come into the end-game for nukes, as if your maxed on 200/200 and your opponent (who is going mech or some variation of biomech) is maxed as well, there is no way in hell you are going to trade efficiently to cause an attack.

Instead, this is where nukes come in handy, Nuke range I believe is 10(?) If you can get in and start nuking the siege lines of your opponent you will not only force him to un-siege and retreat, but also add an element of extra work to his list. (This is where you can get lucky with the nukes)

By forcing un-siege of his tanks, you can them go stim run in and deal more efficient damage (Still might not be worth it though, depending on what else he has lurking behind the initial few tanks :P)

Nukes suck at this role because 100/100 is a very expensive way to lose a ghost - Iaguz.

[ROOT`iaguz]

You don't like using Tanks in TvT? May I suggest you stop playing Terran because they are a fundamental unit which has no true replacement.

Your only other option is to play pure bio and do some absurdly greedy CC timings so you can bull over opponents with stupid huge amounts of bio, and then probably still lose to terrans making tanks because tanks are really good.

Quick Comments

	Bloodmyst:	Well that was a bit of an anit-climax....
	Mr_Zain:	Tanks!

[Bloodmyst]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

You don't like using Tanks in TvT? May I suggest you stop playing Terran because they are a fundamental unit which has no true replacement.

Your only other option is to play pure bio and do some absurdly greedy CC timings so you can bull over opponents with stupid huge amounts of bio, and then probably still lose to terrans making tanks because tanks are really good.

How bout a F^$k you to you Iaguz! No one tells me to stop playing Terran.... not even the mighty Iaguz!!! :P

Even though I said "I don't like" .... I probably used the wrong words I guess. It's just I want to try something different. I know the advantages/disadvantages of Bio, Bio/Mech and Mech..... I guess what I'm really asking for is if anyone has implemented ghost play mid-game in their T v T matches? Or, if anyone knew of any high level replays I could check out where this happens and I can copy some build orders?

C'mon Iaguz, I know you gotta' secret mid-game ghost build up your sleeve. I won't tell anybody your secrets :P

Quick Comments

	ToRPandarine:	be careful when you use foul language with iaguz, he has an axe remember?? :P
	Crankenstein:	Having the balls to say *(^% you to Iaguz...

[ToRPandarine]

Two true masters of have spoken but since you and I are more or less in the same league here's what I have to say. i'm just going to try to give general Bio tips vs Marine Tank and Mech.

Bio is more mobile and easy to replace compared to Mech units. However, they are more fragile (a Thor with +1/2/3 Armour takes stupid amounts of punishment unless you have +Dmg vs Armoured) and don't have the same big punch compared to Mech units.

A rundown of units found in a Bio comp:

• Marines are your main DPS. They are fragile however so try not to run them to Tank fire, especially those with overlapping fields of fire or Hellions found en masse.
• Marauders are your tanking units. They can soak so much and deal a fair amount of damage to any Mech unit.
• Medivacs are what's going to prolong your army. Any Bio unit left alive and healing is a unit not needed to be replaced unlike your Mech opponents who have to spend a lil more money to either replace or repair.
• Ghost, while rarely found, are your go to guys when shit ain't moving. Those Nukes will ruin anyone's day and if you get them in a place where they can wreak havoc (eg. unattended Tanks, SCV transfers, mineral lines, production facilities) good for you.

At BSG levels, the one thing I find most s unable to deal with when they have Tanks is responding to drops efficiently. And I know you know the power of drops This is where Bio is going to shine till he shuts you off (eg. Many many Turrets, a shitload of Marines standing everywhere or a big flight of Vikings patrolling). So, drop him to death.

Essentials whenever facing off Tanks is to keep your units as far apart from each other to minimise splash but close enough to deal the damage needed, sniping off expansions as those Tanks ain't cheap, staying ahead in upgrades and trade as evenly as possible (that is unless you can take out enough Tanks to equate the estimate units lost, don't commit. Go around or drop).

Two builds I find good when going Bio:

• 1 Rax Gasless FE into ALOT of Raxes
• 2Rax Marine Marauder into Expand

And the reason why Nukes aren't really found mid-game? It's 100/100. And that's not accounting for the cost of the Factory, Ghost Academy and Ghost needed to use it.

+ [Silly Mastercard Ad] +

• Buildings: Ghost Academy 150/50. Factory 150/100
• Ghost: 200/100
• Nuke: 100/100
• Insurance-Personal Cloaking: 150/150
• Nuking everything to fine atomic dust: Priceless

For everything else, there's a Mastercard

Well, I hope this helps ^_^

Quick Comments

Bloodmyst:

Love the spolier title! I'd also down rep this for reminding me of that match ><

[ROOT`iaguz]

I remember QXC worked out a ghost build once, actually played against it and whilst I thought it was gimmicky it was surprisingly effective.

Then blizzard went and nerfed snipe so it's pointless. Make siege tanks.

Quick Comments

	Bloodmyst:	my first rep was meant for this post ><
	Crankenstein:	It was such a cool opening too...

[AsylumofSouls]

You could just go marine/marauder and use the ghosts for back door or defensive nukes. Having the faster army means it's still a viable option but probably a lot more difficult to pull off.
I remember seeing a fair few pro games (at least 2 bo5 series) a month or two ago that were marine/marauder vs mech. Can't help you on which tournament it was though, sorry
But bio in TvT IS being done at pro tournament level.

[ToRSpookToR]

bio is good TvT! not so much vs marine tank but vs pure mech it is.

[SLCN.StoicWilly]

if you wanna play pure bio u must really badass multitasking. If not forget it because u have to wear down the other terran opponent who goes for example mech which is really strong late game so u must kill him slowly with drops and stuff.

Quick Comments

x5.NotoriouS: