[syfChadMann]

Firstly, I'm making this thread because Benji is too proud to do so
By no means is this a thread that is designed to flame Benji

I'm asking, what criticism do you have for Benji? - His streams have come under alot of flak lately because of the trash talking he has put out on teams and events.

I'm writing this because I honestly feel, that Benji puts in quite alot of effort and the SEA community needs dedicated individuals. However at this rate - no one will want anything to do with Benji. Also, Benji seems too proud to ask for the criticism - and when it is put forward to him, he responds with something along the lines of 'haters be hatin' okay.. maybe not - more like "Same old criticism from the same old people" Suggesting TA and only TA hate Benji. We need to develop your ability to cast and hold back your flaming. Your a public figure in this community - act with a bit of respect for all of the members within it.

Please, be constructive - don't make it personal.

Admin Edit: Any personal attacks / flaming will get deleted / warned / infracted, so be civil.

Quick Comments

	NOM:
	Fadey:
	x5_dot:
	Mavik:
	Trinion:

[nGenLight]

Maybe you'd like to rephrase the title because it insinuates that Benji needs help, which yeah - when not asked for, could be taken personally.

Quick Comments

	neKo:	my thoughts +1
	NOM:
	syfChadMann:	Can't change after post.. but I titled it 'Constructive Criticism for Benji'
	Fadey:
	TABiggun:
	Bash:

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Maybe you'd like to rephrase the title because it insinuates that Benji needs help, which yeah - when not asked for, could be taken personally.

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too. This is honestly poor form by chadmann... (unless you -have- been PMing him and contacting through his xg email address and stuff and being rejected... in which case you should say so).

Quick Comments

	QEDFridge:
	Asrathiel:	Agreed
	Bash:	+1
	Dox:	Benji and nirvAnA authorised this
	Snx.FigJig:	^
	deL:	obviously what we were doing wasn't working
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	<3 coz so many haters be hating :p
	TADivinity:	..
	SPGDoG:	agreed with dox
	Synizta:	didn't nirvana say this thread should be made?

[QEDFridge]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too. This is honestly poor form by chadmann... (unless you -have- been PMing him and contacting through his xg email address and stuff and being rejected... in which case you should say so).

finally some sanity

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too. This is honestly poor form by chadmann... (unless you -have- been PMing him and contacting through his xg email address and stuff and being rejected... in which case you should say so).

There have been many attempts to talk to Benji about this..

Even nirvAnA said that this thread needed to be made on Sunday - but no one did - after today's chat box incident I thought it was about time. I know that this thread may not be popular among some people - but the recent response by a wide cross section of this community to posts that flame Benji isn't doing anything either. Give him the criticism he needs to work out what he needs to do - untill everyone collectively responds to Benji in a method like this - he will just brush it off 'Benji haters be hatin - watevs'....

The fact is, every time Benji is given any type of criticism he brushes it off and puts it down to the TA hate train. I want to gather constructive criticism for Benji from the entire community.

I struggle to see how this is 'poor form' - it is quite reasonable and in response to Benji ignoring all attempts to help him out.

Quick Comments

	TABiggun:
	NDG.Stitch:	True, he isn't that open to everyone. He'd probably ignore 90% of us.
	lolwut:

[wTlzq]

Better computer specs for streaming!! His stream has the highest number of viewers in SEA on TL, and I feel that his current stream has a low frame rate

Quick Comments

Bash:

oooh good point! +1

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

There have been many attempts to talk to Benji about this..

Even nirvAnA said that this thread needed to be made on Sunday - but no one did - after today's chat box incident I thought it was about time. I know that this thread may not be popular among some people - but the recent response by a wide cross section of this community to posts that flame Benji isn't doing anything either. Give him the criticism he needs to work out what he needs to do - untill everyone collectively responds to Benji in a method like this - he will just brush it off 'Benji haters be hatin - watevs'....

The fact is, every time Benji is given any type of criticism he brushes it off and puts it down to the TA hate train. I want to gather constructive criticism for Benji from the entire community.

I struggle to see how this is 'poor form' - it is quite reasonable and in response to Benji ignoring all attempts to help him out.

You just talked about how he is too proud to publicly ask for this...

so what possible better way to get his back up about it and not want to respond at all to any legitimate criticism than to air them all in public like this.

I'm really just saying you should think about it for 5 minutes first. I do not particularly love benji's casting, but if I have something I want to say to him, I'll say it to him, not to everyone to look cool by being on the benji hating bandwagon.

Quick Comments

	simon:	its carthatic for the community
	TAEdarus:	Missed the point. You think this is fun? Facedesk.
	Bash:	Pretty sure he didnt see Nirv&Co authorise it, its a valid point given that.
	breadfan:	valid point, this has been coming up for WEEKS with concern about a post like this not being able to work
	ToRSpartaz:	ERRRRRYYY MOOOOOOSE i just find your posts and rep em :3
	TAEdgE:	one on one in private obviously hasn't solved shit
	pRoTimber:
	Rockstar:	Balancing the negative. Completely agree.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

You just talked about how he is too proud to publicly ask for this...

so what possible better way to get his back up about it and not want to respond at all to any legitimate criticism than to air them all in public like this.

I'm really just saying you should think about it for 5 minutes first. I do not particularly love benji's casting, but if I have something I want to say to him, I'll say it to him, not to everyone to look cool by being on the benji hating bandwagon.

The public nature of this thread is aimed to force Benji to realise that he needs to take this seriously.

I did think about it for a few minutes - I even asked a few non-TA members if I should post this and was told - yes, nirvAnA said on sunday that this needs to happen so Benji can see what people think - instead of everyone thinking it in the back of their heads but not acting on it.

Also, I specifically asked there not to be any 'hate' so I fail to see how this is 'Jumping on the Benji hate-bandwagon'

If you feel nothing needs to be said to Benji - don't post in this thread. Thank you for derailing the thread, if you want to continue to share that you disagree with everything I post - please PM me, if I don't respond or fail to take your comments into consideration - I welcome you to post a similar thread, Erasmus.

Quick Comments

TAEdarus:

[Dox]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

Maybe you'd like to rephrase the title because it insinuates that Benji needs help, which yeah - when not asked for, could be taken personally.

[19/02/2012 7:04:36 PM] Bryan Choo (aLt.NirvAnA): Benji has given the go ahead with the constructive feedback thread


Alright so I'm just gonna weigh in with something very concise here. Benji has been upsetting more and more people lately. He refuses to respond to criticism, always disengaging from threads or discussions pertaining to his attitude or casting. He even blocked me from Skype to avoid having these sorts of conversations. So by calling other teams "free wins" and getting away with it, and then making jokes at the expense of people he has offended, whilst insulting viewers live on his stream, he's only digging a deeper hole for himself. He said he refused to apologise for his comments, because it would just draw more attention to his attitude.

Joking around about how you've pissed people off during the CityHunter stream on Sunday was extremely rude. Making comments such as, "If you don't like it, don't watch my stream" and "I get more viewers than any other SEA caster so obviously it's fine" are ridiculous. People tune in to the stream because of the games being played. You're a gateway to content that people want access to. To be honest, you'd probably get MORE viewers if you simply broadcasted the games in complete silence.

So here are my suggestions:

• Stop pissing people off.
• Stop blatantly favouring Xeria players. It's fine to cheer for them, but when you insult their opponents or undermine their victories, it rubs people the wrong way. (ie. You almost always justify a Xeria player losing by talking about how his opponent won with a cheesy all-in.)
• Listen to criticism. Telling people "I disagree" or simply disengaging just makes people angrier.
• Can you please stop swearing on stream? I do it when I'm streaming my ladder games, but I sure as hell don't do it when I'm commentating someone else's event. I don't even think you realise you're doing it. It's not very "profesioanl."
• Show some respect to other casters. I don't know where this big head of yours came from, but it's grown to unjustified proportions.
• Remember one very important thing. People tune in to your stream because of the people who are playing. People love watching players like MaFia, iaguz, Rossi, PiG, GLaDe, etc, etc, etc. THOSE players are the reason you have viewers and followers. You OWE them.
• A bit of commentary feedback. You actually say, "IS IT GONNA BE ENOUGH I DON'T KNOW" during almost every single engagement. It seems to be a subconscious reflex. It's especially awkward when your co-caster is actually trying to respond to the question and you talk right over the top of them.
• Please show respect to your co-casters. Give them time to speak, and I know it's said in jest, but you've made quite a few sexist remarks towards Zepph and deleting her twitter plug from your stream chat whilst telling viewers, "Don't follow her, follow me instead" is a real jerk thing to do.
• I'd really like to see you help build the community. Because from our private discussions, you've told me you're not interested in helping to build anything but your own profile & revenue. This community isn't here to make you money. We're here because we all love eSports and we want to see it grow. Please don't take advantage of that.
• Unrelated, but... I'd really love to hear what you were planning on saying about Nv during your stream on Sunday.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:
	Bash:
	NOM:
	iM yang:
	x5_dot:
	TargA:	you are the god of thunder sir
	freaky_beeky:
	wolf:
	VoxMSI.Rogue:
	cruxBsK:
	ToRSpartaz:	As am I dox
	fray`Alpha:
	deL:
	asdfSchnitzel:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:
	pRoTimber:
	Trinion:
	BAD.BiGbiRd:	Also every time an xG player does something or is about to do something the words "Player* is a total boss" come out far too often. Need some variety man :)
	Champi:	u and pinder need to leave champi something constructive to say yo :P

[Flamga]

Originally Posted by Dox

• Stop blatantly favouring Xeria players. It's fine to cheer for them, but when you insult their opponents or undermine their victories, it rubs people the wrong way. (ie. You almost always justify a Xeria player losing by talking about how his opponent won with a cheesy all-in.)
• Show some respect to other casters. I don't know where this big head of yours came from, but it's grown to unjustified proportions.
• A bit of commentary feedback. You actually say, "IS IT GONNA BE ENOUGH I DON'T KNOW" during almost every single engagement. It seems to be a subconscious reflex. It's especially awkward when your co-caster is actually trying to respond to the question and you talk right over the top of them.
• Please show respect to your co-casters. Give them time to speak, and I know it's said in jest, but you've made quite a few sexist remarks towards Zepph and deleting her twitter plug from your stream chat whilst telling viewers, "Don't follow her, follow me instead" is a real jerk thing to do.
• I'd really like to see you help build the community. Because from our private discussions, you've told me you're not interested in helping to build anything but your own profile & revenue. This community isn't here to make you money. We're here because we all love eSports and we want to see it grow. Please don't take advantage of that.

Will be honest, these are the reasons I dont tune in anymore, and why I had to stop watching sunday.

[x5_Potter]

While a bit of bias towards one or the other is always present, the levels in which it happens at time is a bit overkill. Oh, and please stop the bad jokes, it's like SEA's version of Moletrap!

Quick Comments

SmirkToT:

[QEDFridge]

Originally Posted by VB_Potthead

While a bit of bias towards one or the other is always present, the levels in which it happens at time is a bit overkill. Oh, and please stop the bad jokes, it's like SEA's version of Moletrap!

^ main instigator of the bad jokes....

[x5_Potter]

Originally Posted by QEDFridge

^ main instigator of the bad jokes....

But is my name Benji and do I stream lots? As far as I'm aware, no, so i don't need to tone mine down.

Though i should rephrase my statement. Bad jokes are fine, but they have to be done in moderation. Sometimes it gets too much on stream.

[TABiggun]

Imo benji should just play a ton of sc2 so he can improve his game knowledge and this will in turn improve his casting a lot.

[NvPinder]

• Caster's need to be likeable, look at day9. tasteless, artosis, etc. everybody loves THEM, not just their casting ability, you need people to LIKE you for them to want to listen to you, its not like idra where his play is amazing dispite being an asshole, if you're an asshole and a caster, you will not do well.

• You are beyond the point of arrogance. I've never seen another player with the level of arrogance you have over your 'stream viewer count'. Look at moonglade, the guy wins everything ever, the reason why people like him is because he wins AND DOESNT GO AROUND TELLING EVERYONE HOW MUCH HE WINS AND HOW MUCH BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE IS IN SEA (unlike you)

• You piss off a lot of people at big lan events by being arrogant via your team. I actually love all the people who play for you, the 3 aussie guys are in the same clan as me (as much as iaguz is in denial), that being said, you were a lot better at ACL GC in terms of not coming up to me during the tournament telling me how your team is going to win and how everyone in melbourne sucks when im about to go into a game, that wasnt even against your team, however i heard from others you were telling them to choke before their games, again, not at all remotely cool. (Again, relevant via the "casters need to be liked" point)

• During your casts you're known to be ludicrously biased. This is not new to you and I know you are trying to fix this which is good.

• You are incredibly harsh on players. You are NOT, i repeat, NOT high enough level to do analytic casting. Do not watch a players opening and say how bad it is and how sloppy his play was AFTER he's just won(and in some cases, lost) the game. Not only does it take away the spectacle of the players being good (ie: This guy won but he's still shit - then why the **** are we watching these games?), you also risk being wrong, and making yourself look like an idiot. Your job as a caster is to make the game seem more exciting. Anything you can do to make the players sound better, and the game more intense, you SHOULD be doing. Don't say "Oh, awful micro by [x]" or "That was a really bad build by [y]", play up how well the OTHER player did to put himself in that position, or how it was just a 'small miss-step' or SOMETHING. If you make the players in sound shit, people lose interest, and it's all gone.

Quick Comments

	TABiggun:	A lot of good points.
	Flamga:	+1 to the man :) totally agree
	NDG.Stitch:	Yes!
	TAEdarus:	I like this coz its 100% constructive.
	syfChadMann:
	Bash:
	Dox:	That last point was actually brilliant, nice work sir
	NOM:	winning
	TARane:	solid points
	ROOT`iaguz:	im not in denial **** off
	x5_dot:
	oGrNsCo:
	TargA:	i love you
	Eldrid:	well written!
	Welshy:
	cruxBsK:	^all of this
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	good job pinder
	Xenomorph:
	FvRsolis:	you could say pinder was ...on the money
	MrToast:
	asdfSchnitzel:
	ToRSmotPokingFish:	very well said
	pRoTimber:
	TAScaramanga:
	inFeZa:	Why do you make so much cents all the time.....
	TCPKiaSu:
	AxSGRiM:
	Champi:	good points, well said, and Iaguz, u r deffinitely one of us

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by TAJPMoney

• 
  Caster's need to be likeable, look at day9. tasteless, artosis, etc. everybody loves THEM, not just their casting ability, you need people to LIKE you for them to want to listen to you, its not like idra where his play is amazing dispite being an asshole, if you're an asshole and a caster, you will not do well.

• You are beyond the point of arrogance. I've never seen another player with the level of arrogance you have over your 'stream viewer count'. Look at moonglade, the guy wins everything ever, the reason why people like him is because he wins AND DOESNT GO AROUND TELLING EVERYONE HOW MUCH HE WINS AND HOW MUCH BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE IS IN SEA (unlike you)

• You piss off a lot of people at big lan events by being arrogant via your team. I actually love all the people who play for you, the 3 aussie guys are in the same clan as me (as much as iaguz is in denial), that being said, you were a lot better at ACL GC in terms of not coming up to me during the tournament telling me how your team is going to win and how everyone in melbourne sucks when im about to go into a game, that wasnt even against your team, however i heard from others you were telling them to choke before their games, again, not at all remotely cool. (Again, relevant via the "casters need to be liked" point)

• During your casts you're known to be ludicrously biased. This is not new to you and I know you are trying to fix this which is good.

• You are incredibly harsh on players. You are NOT, i repeat, NOT high enough level to do analytic casting. Do not watch a players opening and say how bad it is and how sloppy his play was AFTER he's just won(and in some cases, lost) the game. Not only does it take away the spectacle of the players being good (ie: This guy won but he's still shit - then why the **** are we watching these games?), you also risk being wrong, and making yourself look like an idiot. Your job as a caster is to make the game seem more exciting. Anything you can do to make the players sound better, and the game more intense, you SHOULD be doing. Don't say "Oh, awful micro by [x]" or "That was a really bad build by [y]", play up how well the OTHER player did to put himself in that position, or how it was just a 'small miss-step' or SOMETHING. If you make the players in sound shit, people lose interest, and it's all gone.

Just to add on to the biased casting criticism. A few days ago I watched you casting Iaguz vs a korean protoss (cant remember who) and every comment you made throughout the game was about how iaguz was playing, what his next moves should be, saying it was a good / bad engagement from iaguz, etc.

You weren't talking about the other player at all. If you want to see what we are talking about then I definately recommend you go watch this game.

Quick Comments

	TargA:	lol
	NDG.Stitch:
	FvRsolis:	'high level enough' Pinder is top 3 protoss in the country. He has the ability to be an analytical caster.
	TADivinity:	^ He is directing his words to benji, not to pinder -,-"
	xGKingdelete:	^
	TCPKiaSu:	lol solis mistake yo

[Asrathiel]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Plenty of ways to get in touch with benji to let him know what he can improve on without having to make a thread about it here too.

Yup, totally.

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

Also, Benji seems too proud to ask for the criticism

In which case I doubt something like this would be at all helpful?

ETA

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

There have been many attempts to talk to Benji about this..

Eh, fair enough, be interested to see how it's received...

Aaaaand ETA again, from further on

Originally Posted by Maynarde

This was authorized by nirvAnA and Benji himself.

That makes a major difference then

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

.

[x5_Potter]

Originally Posted by Asrathiel

In which case I doubt something like this would be at all helpful?

But it's better to try and for him to not change, then for us to just bitch about it and not try to get him to change constructively, without abuse.

Quick Comments

Asrathiel:

True dat, good point ^_^

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by Asrathiel

In which case I doubt something like this would be at all helpful?

You'd be surprised how close its getting to a 'the last straw' kind of deal where quite a few top players are going to simply refuse to play games Benji is casting. A "Gamer's strike" if you will. TA are not the only people involved in this idea either.

If this isn't helpful, and he stays locked in his ways, or even worse, it literally will come to that.

[NOM]

Good casters should be objective towards casting against other teams. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to support your team mates but it's inappropriate to show that kind of support in that way that is biased and continually offensive towards others.

Although I don't really get involved in e-sports that much, I know from experience of getting insulted by other team leaders/coaches, and unfortunately it will happen in just about every sport, not just e-sports.

It just makes you feel like crap after matches and losses your motivation to play at your best & having fun, regardless of winning or losing.