Phoenix esports failure to pay player contract + tournament winnings!
The scam that is phoenix esports!
Hello,
Some of you might know me and some might not, nevertheless im here to expose the scammer that is pXTroy.
I recently joined the Australian team Phoenix esports, they were eager to make an contract with me first for 3 months, promising me a starting salary in the contract, in this thread I will shortly explain the way this pXTroy guy lied to me several times and did not end up holding his end at all. When I was joining the team I actually mentioned to him that I was previously in an european team that ended up not paying what they were supposed to me, sadly in midlevel teams in esports there is alot of scamming like this going on. He told me this would never happen in phoenix esports. At the end of the first Month when I asked first to recieve the salary there were some "delays" supposedly the money was coming from another guy supporting phoenix esports, some guy called James who was also a part of phoenix esports.
[8/29/2013 16:10:57] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): James has told me he can only pay $100 right now but can pay the other $100 on wednesday
[8/29/2013 16:11:00] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): is that okay?
[8/29/2013 16:11:33] Matti Bäckström: thats okay
[8/29/2013 16:11:51] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Sorry about that, he forgot how late in the month it was
[8/29/2013 16:12:00] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): he will send the $100 tomorrow morning
[8/30/2013 17:04:48] Matti Bäckström: whatsup...
[8/31/2013 3:29:57] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Hey, has James sent the $100?
[8/31/2013 3:45:44] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): I'm away from home at the moment so sorry about missing your messages last night
[8/31/2013 8:23:26] Matti Bäckström: nope, he didnt
[8/31/2013 10:03:44] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Did you get it sorted out?
[8/31/2013 10:06:09] Matti Bäckström: he said he would do it but nothing happened
[8/31/2013 10:09:55] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Sigh
[8/31/2013 10:09:59] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): ill get onto him
[8/31/2013 10:10:07] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Sorry about this
[8/31/2013 11:25:47] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): hey
[8/31/2013 11:25:53] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): I believe its been sent now?
[8/31/2013 11:35:54] Matti Bäckström: 50... ?
[8/31/2013 11:35:58] Matti Bäckström: he sent only 50 ?
At this point he was also actually considering picking up ANOTHER player with a salary, amazing...
[9/3/2013 16:36:11] Matti Bäckström: btw
[9/3/2013 16:36:18] Matti Bäckström: about the jersey?
[9/3/2013 16:36:20] Matti Bäckström: whats the situation
[9/4/2013 10:03:25] Matti Bäckström: .... thx for answering, and he still didnt send the money btw
[9/4/2013 10:03:35] Matti Bäckström: this is what I was talking about before I joined
[9/4/2013 10:03:46] Matti Bäckström: when I was talking about some earlier teams
Also some talk about Jersey which I never actually recieved, doubt anyone else did either, this was the first time he decided not to answer to me, magically he had fell "asleep"
[9/5/2013 11:05:28] Matti Bäckström: this feels like a really long day
[9/5/2013 11:07:34] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Has he still not sent it?
[9/5/2013 11:07:36] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): For **** sake
[9/5/2013 11:10:39] Matti Bäckström: nop he didnt send it ...
[9/5/2013 11:11:20] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Ahh ill call him again, his going through a divorce with his wife so his been pretty busy. But he has said he will pay for like 2 days now
[9/5/2013 11:11:25] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Im sorry about this
[9/5/2013 11:12:18] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Btw PXL Qualifier 2 is on in 1 hour and 15 minutes
[9/5/2013 11:12:22] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): just so you do remember
[9/5/2013 11:12:27] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): are you still playing in it?
[9/5/2013 11:12:29] Matti Bäckström: His problems should not really affect me to be honest, with not getting the money in time now I have problems
[9/5/2013 11:13:10] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): I agree, I've asked him to send it for 2 days. if you don't have within the next 2 hours ill pay it
To this date he has still not paid it himself
[9/5/2013 15:10:06] Matti Bäckström: will you send that money before end of today?
[9/5/2013 15:22:09] Matti Bäckström: this is getting really tiresome, you remember the past teams I spoke of ?
[9/5/2013 15:22:19] Matti Bäckström: this time I will not stand by and watch the same happen again
[9/5/2013 15:24:26] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): Sorry was watching the stream
[9/5/2013 15:24:40] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): like i said earlier if its not in by 11 (30 minutes) then ill get it
[9/6/2013 16:09:22] Matti Bäckström: ??
[9/6/2013 16:09:26] Matti Bäckström: what seems to be the problem
[9/6/2013 16:09:28] Matti Bäckström: why do you keep lying to me
[9/6/2013 16:09:34] Matti Bäckström: there is still nothing in my paypal
Long 2 hours ;D
[9/8/2013 11:56:02] Matti Bäckström: yes
[9/8/2013 11:57:01] Matti Bäckström: so you will not pay it up ?
[9/8/2013 11:58:05] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): I will try, i honestly have like $20 my self at the moment
[9/8/2013 11:58:53] Troy Lonergan (pXtRoy ): And without me borrowing money of someone i should have another $130 (to pay your $150) by about Wednesday so thats the earliest i can pay MY SELF
I also heard there is other people aswell he has had delays with or has not paid at all, he also forgot my paypal like 4 times and at one point didnt even remember how much he was supposed to pay to me. After the problems appeared he kept ignoring and fake afking me alot, he will certainly try to reply to this thread that it was this "JAMES" guy who was supposed to pay, but im pretty sure from these messages
everyone can see that he still quaranteed to pay it himself, afterwards realizing he could not do it at all. So as a warning to anyone who is going to any business or dealings with this person, should watch out, you're about to be lied to!
Also I've met alot of scammers like this before, this is a very typical way in midlevel esports teams were the sponsors or such pay to the managers, the managers then keep the money to themselves, maybe send a little part of the money to where
its actually supposed to go, but keep the majority to themselves and then claim to the players/ tournament winners or such that they never acutally recieve it themselves, sadly most of the time even the sponsors are not aware of this.
Im sad that this had to happen I was eager to get to know the Australian scene abit better, qualifying to pxl season 1 and all, sadly I've also decided not to play that aswell since mr troy is also a part of running that tournament, most likely again
keeping the money in his own pockets and continuing his little scam.
ps. excuse my grammar mistakes, english is not my primary language
It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.
Sun Tzu 孫子
"If storm finishes I survive, otherwise terran is op" xGKingDelete 2012
Troy is like, 15 years old. I've met him in real life and I sincerely believe he really didn't wish you anything bad. I think he might have been seeking to bolster his team, Phoenix e-sports, because he told me a month or so ago that his team was going through tough times. Troy has run LANs and things before and weekly tournaments and as far as I know has always followed through with payment. I think he was honestly just a little bit in over his head and trying to pick up a big name without considering the potential ramifications if he couldn't pay you quickly.
___________________________________
The Transformer Zerg, Jadron Burgerman @Soundwave
From the logs it does seem as if it wasn't meant to be troy paying you but James. Troy says that James is paying you all along.
So it seems like James screwed you both over, I don't see how Troy is scamming you unless this James fella is fake... But you have no evidence to prove that.
___________________________________ www.twitch.tv/switchaus @andrewthomasrrr
"The hardest part about playing Protoss is not choking on your dad's d--k" - Kreamy 2013
Too many naive people thinking they can make a steady income falling for traps of "income" from kids they barely know trying to run "pro teams". Welcome to reality, you've made the same mistake twice, try not to do it again.
Just wanted to echo some of the sentiments Satiini is saying. But in relation to the pX weekly which Troy has been running very successfully over a long period of time.
Two of my players (Wally & ZenAku) each won pX weekly tournaments recently and they were not paid until a few weeks after where I had to constantly bug Troy to make the payments. I was met with an array of excuses on why he couldn't pay up and the payment was delayed as a result.
Eventually, on Monday the 16th, payment DID come through to my bank account. I was happy that I got the money for my players eventually but the wait time was unacceptable for somebody who runs consistent weekly events.
During my wait for payment, I also began to ask around SEA to see whether or not past pX weekly winners had been paid as I felt this kind of ineptness shouldn't be tolerated if it isn't only just me who has experienced it.
I spoke to x5.PiG who still has not been paid his $20 for two pX wins.
I was informed that DanO, having won 3 pX weeklies, is STILL yet to be paid (not 100% certain on this, word from Spartaz who asked DanO for me).
I also approached Arthur, due to his difficult English I am yet to confirm whether or not he has actually been paid but nothing promising has presented itself.
All in all, Troy does run a great event, the pX weekly is a wonderful thing for the competitive SEA scene and I look forward to seeing players compete in it often.
But when you are so late in payments, especially when you say in one instance "yes I'm fairly sure I've payed X player" but then 2 days later it turns out you haven't paid them all, you begin to cast yourself either as a liar OR a lazy and incompetent tournament organizer.
I don't want the pX weekly to go away, Troy has the right intentions but he is shooting himself in the foot by not promptly paying players for winning his events. Even though it is a small amount of money, it is the principle that counts. Tournament organizers should pride themselves on the legitimacy of their events in paying up what they promise.
Personally, and I know this is the case for others I have spoken to, finding out how dodgy some of these payments have been brings doubt and scepticism regarding the pX League.
EVEN IF Troy manages to pay EVERYBODY off in the next 24 hours, it is irrelevant.
It shouldn't take weeks, or in some cases MONTHS, to pay a measly $10 prize. You need to be called out on this Troy. Nothing personal, just something I believe people need to know about.
EDIT: If people want skype logs & specific dates regarding wait times I will happily oblige in posting them.
From the logs it does seem as if it wasn't meant to be troy paying you but James. Troy says that James is paying you all along.
So it seems like James screwed you both over, I don't see how Troy is scamming you unless this James fella is fake... But you have no evidence to prove that.
Hut missed the part where he convinced many times that he would pay it himself ? And I dont care about his age, if his a kid that cant take care of stuff then he should not be running anything. And bearpack I've played in a 2 dozen pro teams and few of those were the teams on very top back when I was playing warcraft III, most of them totally reliable, scammers and liers like this troy guy should be crushed like the cockroaches they are.
Hut missed the part where he convinced many times that he would pay it himself ? And I dont care about his age, if his a kid that cant take care of stuff then he should not be running anything. And bearpack I've played in a 2 dozen pro teams and few of those were the teams on very top back when I was playing warcraft III, most of them totally reliable, scammers and liers like this troy guy should be crushed like the cockroaches they are.
Wow...harsh much?
Tournament organizers have such a thankless job.
Regardless, if it's a scam or not, due investigations should be done. Send out the fenners!
I can personally testify Troy is a man I would happily entrust to admin my tournaments. He has proven multiple times to be loyal and willing to contribute to the scene and has stepped in multiple times at the last minute.
Admittedly I have not dealt with Troy from a financial level which is what this conversation is primarily about and it seems there are valid concerns and I hope Troy takes the feedback and learns from it. The lad means well, not that it justifies not paying people, however I would not be so quick to put him in the "scammer" basket. I'd like to think I know Troy well enough to confidently say he would not pocket money for himself, he just may promise money he doesn't have which is a lesson he'll need to learn he cannot afford to do (no pun intended).
I'm going to weigh in a bit on the px weekly subject. I urged troy many times to not continue running px weekly's whilst he was still in debt to player's, but he continued to. When the 17th (return) weekly appeared I thought that maybe everyone had been paid but I later found out that was wrong.
This isn't a negative comment towards troy, I'm actually still good friends with him, but Troy you really need to learn that it's not good to lie through your teeth until someone figures you out, instead of running more tournaments figure out a way to pay people the money you owe first. I know your intentions are good but it really doesn't do anyone, especially you, any good to do this.
make sure this doesn't turn into a witch hunt. i'm sure troy has some legitimate reasons for all this - it seems like he relies in James to provide money, and this James guy is all over the place. there's no use ruining troy's status in the community when it's obvious he's trying to make a difference in e-sports. why would a scammer continue to invest so much time in running his own tournament? if he's in it for the money, i can't see it.
Ruining his status? his doing it pretty well himself, atleast in my opinion you simply CANNOT lie to people like this, it determines what you are, atleast in Finland we do not make a habbit out of lying to people. You can say what you want about him trying to improve esports in AUS, with this single action he has made more damage to your whole scene than he could ever make good, I will be sure to let everyone in Europe and NA also know about this, after people will only see AUS scene as a big pile of turd if you guys keep petting guys like troy in the head after he lies repeatedly to people....
make sure this doesn't turn into a witch hunt. i'm sure troy has some legitimate reasons for all this - it seems like he relies in James to provide money, and this James guy is all over the place. there's no use ruining troy's status in the community when it's obvious he's trying to make a difference in e-sports. why would a scammer continue to invest so much time in running his own tournament? if he's in it for the money, i can't see it.
I agree that turning this into a witch hunt against troy is the wrong way to go about things. And yes I can only assume James is the donator Troy has told to me about (randomly went AWOL afaik)
Either way, if you permit me to hijack this, on a similar vein nonetheless, people still haven't been paid for multiple pX weekly wins. It doesn't matter "how good your intentions are" or "how young you are".
As a tournament organizer you have a responsibility to pay what you publicly offer. Troy deserves to be called out on this and people need to recognize it is unacceptable. If you are lagging behind in payments you don't start up more events and then when asked to pay up for previous tournaments tell people you don't have the money. It just comes across as a lack of organization and inexperience. You should ensure all your affairs are in order before proceeding with new investments or endeavors.
Yes Troy is quite young so sure, I accept he is new to all this, but it isn't an excuse in its own right.
So long as he acknowledges his mistakes, learns from them, and pays up what he owes I'll be happy.
"I will be sure to let everyone in Europe and NA also know about this, after people will only see AUS scene as a big pile of turd"
wow you're really mature. your response to me asking for his side of the story is to trash the australian scene because of one bad experience. if you're so professional you'd at least try to wait until this is resolved before shit canning something you literally have no relationship to.
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