Hello SC2SEA! I would like to discuss the design of this website, SC2SEA.com, and how and why it could be improved. The reason I would like to discuss this is because I consider SC2SEA to be the best portal to the SEA SC2 community and I think it should take this responsibility very seriously as it can influence the amount of involvement of both potential and current community members. If the site is user friendly and a place that people enjoy visiting then they will be more inclined to regularly use the site. If the site is frustrating to navigate and an eye sore it could hinder their involvement in the scene. I am not saying the site is terrible but I think it could be improved. I have been participating in the scene as a spectator, competitor and contributor on a casual level since SC2 was released but I have only visited SC2SEA.com when it was a necessity to get information about an event or to sign up for one. I consider myself an average community member and I believe that because of my reluctance to use SC2SEA.com I have missed out on a lot of what the SEA scene has to offer. Considering myself as an average community member I believe there are many others like me who could be participating more in the SEA scene.
This website has all the information, utility, personality and community that someone interested in the SEA SC2 scene could want or need. It has great features such as chatbox, quick comments, profiles, streams, tournaments, events, ect. But I think the execution and presentation of these services is not always the best. I believe that the website should be completely transparent, obvious and intuitive when someone visits this site for the first time. Users should feel comfortable and feel like everything they want to use on the site is easily accessible. It should be a pleasant and inviting experience.
What i would like to discuss:
- The Banner
One of the first impressions this website makes is with its banner. Looking at this image I see an amature charm. Something cutesy that doesn't take itself too seriously. The problem with this is that a lot of people will be turned off by the amature nature, by the cuteness, and by the apparent nonchalant attitude towards starcraft. I think a more professional, neutral banner would appeal to a larger audience and have lasting aesthetic value. The novelty of the current banner wanes with each view and becomes annoying and tacky.
- Architecture
Going from the top of the site to the bottom there is an incredible number of borders, boxes, and lines. Boxes and lines are good for the separation of different aspects of the site such as a subheading from a list, but when everything is broken into its own separate box it looks cluttered and breaks the flow. A minimal approach to boxes and borders can still provide the same structure to the page, but make it look much more open and fluid.
- Colors
Too many colours. The website should have a consistent, neutral, and non-distracting palette. Colours shouldn't compete with each other they should complement each other. The amount of coloured text and random coloured icons (achievements, news, tournaments) can be a real eye-sore, but i do like the use of the icons, just not the random colours of them.
- Achievements
Do these really need such big colourful icons in the avatar. Why not small badges instead that have neutral colours that make them a neat subtle addition and not another bit of clutter.
- Fonts
So many fonts! So many different colours, sizes and styles. It's difficult to read and breaks the flow of the website. The website would flow so much better and be so much easier to read if the fonts were more consistent. Opening the website as a guest and going from the top down you can see how many inconsistencies there are including the banner.
- Mobile devices
This website is absolutely not accessible on mobile devices. The amount of clutter makes it difficult to view on a small screen. The amount of images makes it take forever to load. The difficulty to enter information makes it a constant battle against the website to participate. Considering the amount of time people spend on 3/4G networks on small devices, I think a simple, minimal mobile version of the site would go a long way to increase user activity.
- Bot defense
The bot defense is always going to be an inconvenience and annoyance to human users. Because of this it should try to be as convenient as possible. I don't want to have to read a whole sentence and be told to look at an image at the top of the page to figure out what to put in the box. There are many simple captcha's available that are 10x stronger at bot defense and don't require as much attention from the user. Users are already used to traditional captchas and can mindlessly complete the form without taxing the users attention to read a full sentence and be forced to take their attention away from the submission and to the top of the page. Admittedly the current captcha becomes mindless after a few uses but first impressions are important and the current captcha isn't good at bot defense, it's just an inconvenience.
Conclusion
While this post has been very critical of the website it is not meant to be offensive. I could never produce a website this good and I have no experience in design. This website has done many many things right and is very successful. I just wish for it to be more successful and help grow the SC2SEA scene even more. With legacy of the void coming I think a better website design could help get many new fans involved and retain them within the community. I welcome any discussion and criticism to the content of this post and hope we can open a productive conversation on the design of this site.
Pretty surprising post from some one whos not very involved on the sc2sea site ( 3 post) but hey, there u go. Welcome if you decide to stick around.
Can say I can both Agree and Disagree with some of the things brought up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbogangsta
- The Banner
One of the first impressions this website makes is with its banner. Looking at this image I see an amature charm. Something cutesy that doesn't take itself too seriously. The problem with this is that a lot of people will be turned off by the amature nature, by the cuteness, and by the apparent nonchalant attitude towards starcraft. I think a more professional, neutral banner would appeal to a larger audience and have lasting aesthetic value. The novelty of the current banner wanes with each view and becomes annoying and tacky
For the most part I agree. Honestly I don't even notice it these days but when I do stop and look at it I don't Think its that great (or that bad to be honest... but could be better).
I remember just over a year ago sc2sea ran a thread/contest to redesign the sc2sea logo. Unfortunately nothing ever came of it. But yeah had some cool post in it. My personal fav was the first of Cute's 2 Sea Horse ones. (post number 19)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbogangsta
- Architecture
Going from the top of the site to the bottom there is an incredible number of borders, boxes, and lines. Boxes and lines are good for the separation of different aspects of the site such as a subheading from a list, but when everything is broken into its own separate box it looks cluttered and breaks the flow. A minimal approach to boxes and borders can still provide the same structure to the page, but make it look much more open and fluid.
Honestly I love the way the lay out of this site works. The Boxes and Sections are great and makes every thing easy to find. I wouldn't change a thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbogangsta
- Colors
Once again totoally fine with me. as far as the main box goes i got the teal/aqua color and the black and blue on text.
As far as text goes in post with color. Usually is good. Can sometimes be over done. But that's from the decision of the poster. Having the large color (and font) options are a good thing to include and allow the poster to choice how best to use those options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbogangsta
Achievements
Personally Love the big achievements I think TheGentleman (I believe it was him who redesigned them. sorry if I'm wrong.) did a great job and they add some good personality to each profile that has them. My only complaint with them now is that they have stopped making/giving them out (as far as I'm aware.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbogangsta
- Mobile devices
I check this site out alot from my phone (usually at work or in the morning when im still in bed and cant be F'ed getting up.) its not the greatest. But it is definitely doable. Also when I moved at the end of last year, I had to use my phone for all my sc2sea needs (since no net for like 2 months after we moved) and it worked fine. I was still able to do alot of the running the clan through threads and PM's thanks to the site. So yeah not the greatest phone availability. But its not too too bad either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbogangsta
Bot defense
Are you talking about when you sign up or when you make a post/thread. Cant say I've ever seen a bot thread/post on this website.
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Previously known as Ali
I personally like the Box and sections, easier to find stuff that is related. I also agree with Alpha (except i don't look access sc2sea from my mobile).
I also might add: 1) No Limit on Quick Comments, sometime it is annoying when you already posted a quick comment and you want to respond back to the quick comment. You have to quote it and post as a new post.
2) When you are in a Clan, and so you have the clan tag (in your settings). Any post or blog or any clan related that has the clan tag as the prefix, you will get an notification (just as if you got a private message). That way members of the clan is better informed.
3) Leaders of Clan, have the ability to mass send all message to all or some members of their clan (of their own choosing). Without the need to manually and individually send the message to them.
4) Member of the clan should have or have similar to "Member of [insert clan name/tag]", similar to "Leader of [insert clan name/tag]" (just like the above post). For example i'm in the clan mGG, so under my name in this post will say: "Member of mGG". But of course this status is only shown and activated after a confirmation from the clan leader that the person is in the clan (can be removed by the leader as well, when necessary). So easier to see who is which clan and no false/negative representation of a clan by any user.
5) Further Adding to 4). Also another benefit of those, Leader of the clan has an entire member list, to see how many and who is in the clan for better organization and management. Like tools involving each or all individual like Private Message, Remove from Clan, Suspend from Clan, Ban from clan, Message All or Selected Members, can group member/s to however the leader wants and so on. From member and everyone else, on the clan homepage, will automatically show the complete list of members (this will be automatically updated according to the member list from the Leader). It will be just their names and Clan status (like Active, Banned, suspended, On Holidays, and so on).
6) Further Adding to 4) and 5). Clan Status (like Active, Banned, suspended, On Holidays, and so on), is shown next to their name in their post and in the member list. For example, Members who are suspended from the clan, they have "Member of [insert clan name/tag] (Suspended)" and on the Member List: "[Clan Member's Name] (Status: Suspended)". So we know this member has received punishment or something, worse case if they get banned they are removed from the member list and will not have "Member of [insert clan name/tag]" anymore. Just more informative that way
7) Have a Thumps Up or Thumbs Down, if they like or dislike a post or blog.
8) To make it easier, have a separate page in your profile that has a list of all your post/blog and in what thread the post is located in (as well as quick comments). At the moment it alot harder to go and find it.
9) On sc2sea homepage, it is good to have updates from Blizzard SC2 Homepage (http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/), so it make it easier for people to stay on one website (sc2sea) to find out the latest updates. Without opening another website (http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/) to find out updates.
Note:
If i think of any more ideas, i will update this post (so it all in one, rather than all over the place). Unless there some time difference and number of post between now and when i think of more, than i'll prob continue on a new post. Watch this space
___________________________________ Currently i My Youtube Channel: https://goo.gl/6a070Q
Last edited by VorteX; Thu, 26th-Sep-2013 at 4:49 PM.
I won't quote the sections I'm replying to because there's already been three or four people comment on each one and that would just get sort of chaotic if i tried to quote everyone, and if I didn't, I'd leave out someone's opinion when replying and I'd dislike that.
Banner
I don't find anything wrong with the Banner as such, when I'm on the site I tend to spend my time talking in the chatbox, replied to threads, or stalking House Clan sections.
I'm never really staring at the banner trying trying to develop an opinion on it. To me it's just been something that's always been there, but never been important enough to take more than a second or two to glance at accidentally while I'm searching for something else near that area of the site.
However, I'm not majorly in love with it either, and if SC2SEA had some sort of "graphics competition" where they gave us the pixel dimensions of the banner, and told us to come up with any random banner with a given (or not) colour scheme, I'd take part in that, and it would be nice to see a new banner up there
(once again, not because i DISLIKE this one, but simply because "why not")
Architecture
I completely agree that it's a very formidable theme, but it only takes a while to get used to, as long as you try. If you come back the first day of every week, look at the site architecture, and say "nope, it's too complex for me," and leave, you won't get used to it. But for just a week if you actually try to get used to using the site, and try to focus more on posting and chatting rather than staring in confusion at the site, trust me, you will get comfortable with it soon (:
Also, since I think there are a fairly large number of users already comfortable with the site, changing it will only cause more confusion to those members. >.<
Personally I'm very used to the set up, and I find it quite easy to use now that I've been here for a while (honestly it took me no more than a week of being active to get used to it), and you have control over your news feed to some extent; I don't get any posts from D3, LoL, or other games on my homepage. Also I've minimized boxes that I don't care about.)
Colour
I don't quite get what you mean by colour, but if it's of any help to you, there is actually a function to change a part of the site's colour scheme, just under the forum search bar...
Achievements
Well, if you're talking about on forum threads, I agree that they're a tad big, if they were decreased in size in order to fit in more achievements, that'd be nice. Otherwise, I don't think their presence itself is anything bad. I like their look and their colours, so in my opinion if they were just resized I'd find that a benefit.
Fonts
I don't get what you mean at all, since there's only one font on the home page. There are different sizes and colours and bolded fonts, but the font itself is the same. If you're talking about fonts that people use in posts, those are customized and if they feel the urge to use that font, I feel that they should be able to.
You yourself should keep from using those fonts if they annoy you, but I don't think that option should be taken away from everyone else.
Mobile Devices
Chatbox is a pain in the arse from mobile, I agree. But redesigning the actual site to make it more mobile friendly isn't the best of ideas in my opinion. Because of how different sites are between mobile and computer, redesigning this to suit mobiles better would probably make it very basic and uninteresting for computers.
If there's some lovely dedicated person person out there willing to somehow make a phone app for the site, that'd be lovely, but otherwise I think it should be left as is.
I use the site from my phone constantly, and chatbox is almost impossible with all the clutter, but I'm able to read new thread replies with relative ease.
Reply to VortiX
(since he didn't talk about any of this, and instead just spoke about other improvemnts he'd like to see take place for the site)
I agree with the quick comment thing, once quick comment per post is a bit annoying, and and not quick commenting on your posts is even more annoying when you want to reply to a quick comment already on there.
Well, if your clan leader regularly updates the House Clan page, then there's your member's list for you. AxS's SouL/KnighT updates our section constantly, the moment a member joins/leaves or is promoted, it goes on there.
Also, as long as your clan is well organized outside of these forums, none of those other options for remove from clan, mass PM, et cetera are necessary.
Once again, referring to AxS as an example, we have a Skype chat which is essentially our headquarters for our mucking around, any news, and anything else regarding our clan. And then we have one chat for BSG, PD, and MGM each. It's a bit chaotic in the main chat, but it's a good system to pass around information, and if the clan leader wants to eject a member, he kicks them from the chat, if a new member joins he adds them to the chat, and if they're in the chat they're part of the Clan.
So all those functions would probably be aesthetically nice, but not really a core necessity for clans on the forum itself.
Although, I really agree with you, leaders have "Leader of " under their name, and if leaders could give all members "Member of " under their name, or maybe even "MGM Head of " or "BSG Head of " then that sort of stuff would be really cool and I'd support that fully.
Thumbs up / Thumbs down function; I agree with this - it would be nice. But just make sure you can only thumbs up the same user once per hour, and only once per post forever, and you can't thumbs up yourself.
Also don't attach this to any sort of achievement factor, as it can easily be exploited to have the results tilt in your favour.
We want this to remain a like/dislike post function, not a "hey look I have more thumbs ups overall than you do!" thing.
can't think of anything else right now, will add if I can.
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Alternates being known as AurA and AxS.Kumo
Chatbox is a pain in the arse from mobile, I agree. But redesigning the actual site to make it more mobile friendly isn't the best of ideas in my opinion.
Just wanted to chime in on this specifically. Generally with mobile versions of websites you still have the option to choose the full or mobile version when accessing on your phone browser (the url usually has an i. at the beginning, and many sites will give you a page with links to both options on your first visit).
Personally I think a mobile version of this site would be of great benefit. I (as many others) spend a lot more time on a smart phone when out and about, viewing things such as twitter/facebook etc. I don't spend any time on sc2sea on my mobile because it's a pain to navigate, takes ages to load, and the chat box can be a pain. If it was easy and convenient to use on my phone maybe I'd spend more time on there, and this could end up encouraging more people to actively use the site.
I guess the question is whether extra work on the site is deemed worth it in the long run (the site runners seem to be fairly inactive/moved on to other things these days, so I don't know if they view major alterations to the site to be worth their time at this point).
Yeah, I agree with what you say Daedalus.
If it's a mobile version, I'm all for it, but I'm against editing the main site itself to make it more mobile friendly.
And yeah, the site pretty much operates on the users now, there aren't exactly many site admins or coders around anymore. :/ And NirvAnA has been really busy himself of late, so it'll have to be something essential in his eyes to actually get him to somehow implement the feature.
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Alternates being known as AurA and AxS.Kumo
Thumbs up / Thumbs down function; I agree with this - it would be nice. But just make sure you can only thumbs up the same user once per hour, and only once per post forever, and you can't thumbs up yourself.Also don't attach this to any sort of achievement factor, as it can easily be exploited to have the results tilt in your favour.We want this to remain a like/dislike post function, not a "hey look I have more thumbs ups overall than you do!" thing.
We had thumbs up/down (smiley & sad faces iirc) , its gone for a reason. The quick comments were a replacement and i think they do quite well.
the problem with upvotes/downvotes on a forum as small as this is that it can quickly become a popularity contest & can add a certain amount of anxiety to posting. Someone new might not want to chime in with their opinion incase its unpopular.
ps posting from phone- could use improvements, might not be worth it though.
Also think a new banner would be nice (but keep the animals somewhere, they rule)
I joined up to sc2 in Dec 2012 and remember thinking my first impressions were that the site was kind of kiddy (the header) and would think that the people on the site would be the type to talk anime constantly (not much of an anime fan myself) and so I wouldn't get much into discussion on the site about anything and honestly forgot about the site for a while (maybe I forgot to bookmark the site or something?). But it wasn't until I started to talk to more people in the sea scene (huge thanks to Fenner for getting me more interested), getting to know people etc that I got back on and made sure I bookmarked the site. By then, the view of the site didn't bother me (though it didn't really) and it was simply a place people went to to discuss things and just hang I guess.
I suppose to attract newcomers to the site and make it continue to grow is make the site a tad more simpler and user friendlier? I find that the site is a bit cluttered. The lists of forums on the left with all the titles deters me from visiting something (though i tend i click on a link randomly anyway). Theres just so much stuff as you scroll down the page.
There should be a function to toggle that "stop chat because you're idle" thing, I hate that and wish i could turn it off.
Some of the stuff was already discussed in the main post but yeah that's my 2 cents, it wasn't so much as suggestions but my experience. Hope it helped :3
I'm sorry if the title was misleading and I think the discussion this is generating is great. My main point was about the design of the website in regards to new users. Not about people who are already used to the website. A new user shouldn't have to get used to the site.
I think a design change to make it easier for new users would be good. Some re-arrangement of everything on the site at least just to change things up would be nice also. I feel the SC2 general thread subsection is a bit hard to find at the moment.
I also feel that tournaments not showing up in the tournaments forum, whilst featured in news, is counter-intuitive. Hopefully we can make it so they can be in news and the thread can still be seen in the tournaments forum.
Thanks for the effort in posting this from someone who seems to understand website design.
Good points, particularly agree with the colours. And the forums could use a lot of condensing down, getting rid of ones that aren't popular/merging with others.
Just quickly giving my own personal thoughts to some of these:
Layout
I agree the layout is rather heavy (and wide) and possibly non-intuitive. Problem with trying to fix this is, once you're used to, it's hard to see the problems anymore. Especially when you fall into a routine, and you start thinking everyone uses it the same way. For example, I hardly ever use the sidebars and instead just look through Top Stats to see what new posts there are at the start of the day, and then use chat to see what is happening at the time.
I've been thinking about a redesign for quite a while, and even have some mocked up, but actually committing to doing a redesign is quite a big task given the size and age (in terms of how it is put together) of the site. Given the feature creep that would inevitably occur, I can see it taking until StarCraft 3 comes out before it's done. So more likely is if people identify particularly rubbish things that we can then look at improving in smaller chunks.
Achievement icons - I hate how the user pane in posts is massive (and more often than not taller than the actual contents). But some people like it and it gives people something to strive for, so I dunno.
Clans
This has been on the list for ages, originally to reduce the need for site name changes. Unfortunately, it's not a straightforward thing to integrate with each of the site's functions. But, if there is demand for this, this is definitely something that would be looked at.
News
Another of those been on the list things is to overhaul how the front page / news is organised. Right now, basically it just presents threads from a forum, which means relevancy is hard to handle, and it's hard to feature things which aren't quite news because it means taking them out of their natural habitat as it were. Basically the plan to fix this dropped rapidly down the list because at the moment I don't think we have any active writers (or really, much to write about at the moment) :/
Tournaments
Probably the worst organised set of forums at the moment. There are three (!) separate forums where tournament information is supposed to be posted, and only one is immediately obvious and the others are on the other side of the page to where you think posts go. The new news system would have also fixed this.
Mobile
I think the experience would be improved even if there was no specific mobile theme if the site wasn't so wide. Also, you probably don't want chat (as it is) on your mobile. The way it's implemented is extremely data inefficient.
Out of curiosity, which are the main features you would like on mobile? Forums? Chat? Something else?
Mobile
I think the experience would be improved even if there was no specific mobile theme if the site wasn't so wide. Also, you probably don't want chat (as it is) on your mobile. The way it's implemented is extremely data inefficient.
Out of curiosity, which are the main features you would like on mobile? Forums? Chat? Something else?
This is what i said I would not like, if the site itself was changed in order to suit mobile.
If there was a mobile version, as Daedalus was talking about, I'd be fine with that.
Posting from the phone isn't much of a pain in my opinion, it's just the chatbox that is. So that mobile version would work on making chatbox easier to access.
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Alternates being known as AurA and AxS.Kumo
So for the longest time I just came back to the website and remembered why i stopped visiting here. It's a shame because there is exclusive SEA content on this site. I think the problem with this site is that you seem to be able to do absolutely everything from the same page. There are at least 2 different links that go to the same place or two different displays of the same information. The functionality of this site is through the roof but because of this the site is not functional at all. I don't want to minimize, filter, change theme on every single page. I also think its ridiculous to offer like 5 buttons for replying to a forum post! The amount of clutter on this site is insane. I also don't like the banner (childish) but that doesn't affect the website functionality.
If i were to propose a change this is what I would suggest:
- Have all minimize/filter/theme options only available in your profile page
- Have all content categorized and only view-able when navigating to that specific category. e.g: Have a "Streams" link in the navigation bar that has all your stream needs. Don't keep it on the side of every page. (this goes for tournaments/ forums/ shop products/events. ect)
- Streamline the forum posting options to just one "reply". if people need to quote or w/e they can do it from in their reply box. I also think the comment function is over the top in a forum but I can see why people would like it.
- I actually like the chat box on the home page but ONLY on the homepage. And a pop out option should be available (see twitch chat).
- The amount of ads is a bit ridiculous but I can understand them. I just wish they were better organised and didn't dominate the website so much (see teamliquid).
- Make an option (in profile page) to hide all achievements/signitures/avatars/the banner. When not hidden the achievments should be 1/4 their current size and the avatars should be 2/3 their current size (and washing all these images into a more standard light colour palette would be nice).
- Streamline any unnecessary buttons. (there's multiple contact us, back to top, register ect. on every page)
- Don't tell people to register or come out of lurking or w/e. It's more clutter and I don't want to be told what to do.
I really think you need to seriously assess the current state of this website and how inaccessible it is to new users. Goals for improvement that are important to me: Less cluttered, Streamlined, Professional, Light Weight(data), and Accessible.
LotV is going to bring a lot of new users to SC2SEA and unless they can easily navigate and use this website they will soon leave. A growing scene requires user retention.
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