I'm really struggling with my TvZ at the moment (gold on NA, plat on SEA), its just an insta loss for me unless I do some cheesy 2rax all in build (did it once, felt dirty, never again). I've been going blue flame hellion expand into MMM + tanks, and I just lose. I've been talking to the zergs after I GG about what I could have done, and other than the one or two who just spam "lol noob" have said "you need to pressure the zerg constantly".
Sounds fine in theory, but how do you actually do it? I thought my blue flame hellion opening would be a good start, but even if I kill a good amount of drones I lose anyway. Often its to ling/bling/muta. I'm putting my marauders at the front, my marines on a seperate hotkey and slowpushing with my tanks. But I just seem to get crushed by a huge margin.
Replay 1: I tried a blueflame hellion expand into MM + Tank, and kept up macrowise with the zerg until his 3rd and extra hatchery kicked in. He literally jumped to almost max when he saw me push out...god knows why he didn't use all that larva before hand.
The zerg responded to seeing my techlabbed factory instantly, throwing up some spines. Perhaps I need to surprise him? Oh, and ignore where all my workers run away from the mineral line for 2 seconds at the start of the game, my kitten really wanted to play starcraft.
Replay 2: A practice match vs my mate (yes he ALWAYS plays as pink). I made some silly mistakes, like forgetting to turret up my main, and the biggest was loosing my tanks to the mutas whilst my marines were all "LOL FREE OVERLORDS". But to be honest, that's the best I've ever done vs muta harass. I had trouble getting my expo up, and that initial big loss at my main, but it was much better than usual.
Now in both games my hellions weren't that effective, should I be trying a different strategy? How do I stop him from getting to ball of death status? Drops? Banshees? Reactor hellions instead of blue flam(tried reactor hellions as my last game today, but turns out the dude was going 7RR so I just lost)? Is MMT a good unit comp vs zerg or not?
A bit crazy, any roxkisBratOK T v Z is always full of pressure. I don't think there is any secret build order to T v Z, just use every dirty trick you can think of.
Its a continuous atttack (somewhat all in) but it is really effective.
First with the Bunker Rush against the fast expo, forces Zerg to build lings or roaches instead of drones.
Second, after the bunker rush, the Zerg may think he can drone up and does drone up. By this time, flood in with Marines and marauders by catching him off-guard.
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PapaBigBelly.588
Previously known as ArousalPerMinute
hey, I think you need to be more aggressive, u didnt attack at all on the 8-9 minute mark when FE zerg is at the weakest. Just from ur replays u had tanks with seige mode and ur hellions have put the zerg on defense, should have gone and set up a contain then.
Also, abit more scouting wouldnt hurt either, u have completely no idea that banelings or multas are on the way. Specially the second game, all u know is he have 2 hatches and a pool for a LONG while, you never knew he is on 5 base.
Another thing is ur macro, u should have at least 5 rax, 2 factory and 2 starports by the time u have 3 bases but u had 3k minerals and 2 k gas instead >_<
He says when someone expands they are at their weakest and you basically have two decisions to make, either
A. I saw him FE so now i am going to put 100% into breaking him (this means no expanding or teching on your side just ATTACK!)
B. He is planing to go into the mid-late game so i will expand and match him in macro.
He also said a lot of people fail here because they try to take the middle ground, they don't commit 100% to that decisions (try to expand and attack or tech), i improved a fair bit since watching that video so might help you too.
I think with the BratOK match he knew that the Zerg would FE so his goal was to match that and deny him a 3rd and 4th expo through pressure.
Another thing is ur macro, u should have at least 5 rax, 2 factory and 2 starports by the time u have 3 bases but u had 3k minerals and 2 k gas instead >_<
Yeah, I have huge troubles with late game macro. I just don't know how many buildings I can support for each mining base :\. Is there some kind of equation you can use to know how many buildings you can support? I'm pretty good at keeping everything building (gotta work on doing it during harass micro though), but I'm always afraid of building too much stuff, or just don't even think to add on buildings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SystemZer0
Also, abit more scouting wouldnt hurt either...
Do you mean by spending scans? I don't see how I could get a unit in there late game to scout, without sacrificing a medivac or a whole bunch of troops trying to break in. Perhaps I should do a drop and scout at the same time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SystemZer0
Just from ur replays u had tanks with seige mode and ur hellions have put the zerg on defense, should have gone and set up a contain then.
I am TERRIFIED of mutas. If I set up a contain I need to have marines with my tanks, else they just get picked off...which in turn leaves my base defenseless to muta harass. How do I deal with this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by loads of people
Links!
Thank you all. Now that I've got the time to play again (because exams are over, and I got my new mouse/keyboard...the old ones were about to die and barely registered) I would really like to start playing well, instead of just puttering around in platinum 3raxing people.
Last edited by PantlessPete; Mon, 10th-Jan-2011 at 10:49 AM.
Yeah, I have huge troubles with late game macro. I just don't know how many buildings I can support for each mining base :\. Is there some kind of equation you can use to know how many buildings you can support? I'm pretty good at keeping everything building (gotta work on doing it during harass micro though), but I'm always afraid of building too much stuff, or just don't even think to add on buildings.
Personally, I do 3 production building per base.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avelestar
Do you mean by spending scans? I don't see how I could get a unit in there late game to scout, without sacrificing a medivac or a whole bunch of troops trying to break in. Perhaps I should do a drop and scout at the same time?
Yes, use scans and if u can get a viking or 2 because they can -
1. scout
2. overlord hunting
3. sniping queens
4. hit open xpos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avelestar
I am TERRIFIED of mutas. If I set up a contain I need to have marines with my tanks, else they just get picked off...which in turn leaves my base defenseless to muta harass. How do I deal with this?
Trust your own units!
Marines makes multas look silly. Seriously, 2 marines > 1 multa ...
Thors are hard counter to multas, cost by cost.
Vikings are not a counter to multas!
Soo, 5 turrets and 10 marines per xpo = multa free zone ^_^
Zerg will prob need 20 multas to break that and is NOT a good trade.
Having 1000 minerals in defence at each expo is really wasteful. When you go on the attack, your army will be at least 1000 minerals smaller than his and his mutalisks that you 'neutralised' would be able to join in his defence. Chances are that your army would be pretty much crushed against numerical superiority of about 20+ food.
Then when you look back the replay, ask yourself: would my push have succeeded if i had 20, or 40 more marines?
What you should be doing is forcing the mutalisks into a defensive position where they have to stand and fight instead of simply harrassing. Or you can stifle his gas economy from the get-go by constantly harrassing his mineral line and forcing him to divert gas into say, baneling or hydra production.
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