Admin Note: The posts from this thread originally appeared in the "xGking joinvs AVANT!" thread. They were moved here to resolve / discuss any old issue without derailing the new thread announcement. MezjE's OP actually happens after post #15 in this thread. Everything else is in chronological order. Have fun!
The AV Experience
Please read all the logs included within the spoilers, they are arguably the most important part of the blog!
Ok first of all I went to get a few things out of the way before I dive in to the nitty-gritty...
I am making this blog purely to show how AV treated my team and some of my closest mates over a short 3 months, when I was told we were getting dropped before the conclusion of our contract at an event with no prior knowledge of anything I knew I had to say something. I didn't want the switch to happen and everybody think we got what was promised and were not resigned as AV were picking up xG instead. The reality was we got very little and the little we did get took far too much effort to get.
Many people think managing a team is easy and that people do it just for free stuff despite not actually being a player. Over the last two years or so I have learned that management is far from easy, in fact eSports as a whole is a tough cookie to crack.
Now lets get down to business...
After the controversy with ToR we went in with extreme hesitation and I had many a talk with Spartaz and the boys over what was right to do. Once we looked at all our options we realized AV was probably the best choice as it offered us the most and the contract wasn't that long, only 4 months so if shit were to hit the fan we could just wait it out.
I remember being talked about a lot regarding the players skill levels and was very upfront that our best players were only about the level of NXZ and Pezz, we are no better than ToR in terms of skill at all. Management seemed ok with this and we agreed I would look for a tier 1 player to add to the roster during the the 4 month period. Unfortunately AV as an organisation has no idea about the SC2 scene and it was hard to explain that tier 1 players don't just appear and cannot be poached.
So eventually we signed the contract and weeks went by with no word of gear. I asked Wes about it a few times and eventually was pointed to Seth, Seth and I talked a lot and I was told that gear gets rushed out for big events, here is how our conversation went down:
[14/06/2013 6:25:04 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Ok in terms of a contract from a professional org this is the longest I have ever had to watch players wait to receive anything. Even when we were with qmX which had no real sponsors we had more stuff paid for and shirts by the time we have received nothing from you.
[14/06/2013 6:26:30 PM] Seth Touchette: We generally rush it all out for LANs etc
[14/06/2013 6:26:32 PM] Seth Touchette: but more so
[14/06/2013 6:26:34 PM] Seth Touchette: we've been ******* busy
[14/06/2013 6:27:25 PM] Seth Touchette: Have you guys qualified for ACL?
[14/06/2013 6:31:36 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Do you know how ACL works for SC2?
[14/06/2013 6:39:50 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I am pretty sure 0 of them have qualified. In terms of the quals since we have been with Av there have been two. One of which was at a LAN so Malice and RuineD were unable to play it at the same time. David was in Japan. In the most recent Malice was unable to play due to it being on SEA, RuineD was on a family holiday and I am unsure about David (Savior).
[14/06/2013 6:46:08 PM] Seth Touchette: (sorry 2 secs)
[14/06/2013 6:46:10 PM] Seth Touchette: (eating)
[14/06/2013 7:02:14 PM] Seth Touchette: kk
[14/06/2013 7:02:43 PM] Seth Touchette: what does being on SEA have to do with anything?
[14/06/2013 7:03:55 PM] Seth Touchette: and ye if its anything like ACL Brisbane
[14/06/2013 7:04:32 PM] Seth Touchette: most orgs send out gear right before LANs anyway
[14/06/2013 7:04:38 PM] Seth Touchette: makes it ez
[14/06/2013 7:32:36 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I don't what most orgs you are talking about...
[14/06/2013 7:32:49 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: SEA ping is horrendous for some players as servers are in singapore.
[14/06/2013 8:03:23 PM] Seth Touchette: well, I remember thats what happened to both fray and iM league teams
[14/06/2013 8:03:26 PM] Seth Touchette: along with x5
[14/06/2013 8:04:08 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: fray SC2 got their gear at ACL Brisbane?
[14/06/2013 8:04:46 PM] Seth Touchette: Did they
[14/06/2013 8:04:47 PM] Seth Touchette: ?
[14/06/2013 8:04:55 PM] Seth Touchette: I'm talking about league back in the day
[14/06/2013 8:05:00 PM] Seth Touchette: our players @ the event did
[14/06/2013 8:05:10 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Oh their LoL players got gear @ ACL Brisbane?
[14/06/2013 8:05:18 PM] Seth Touchette: yaya
[14/06/2013 8:05:21 PM] Seth Touchette: well
[14/06/2013 8:05:24 PM] Seth Touchette: not @ ACL
[14/06/2013 8:05:27 PM] Seth Touchette: but events
[14/06/2013 8:05:47 PM] Seth Touchette: Just makes it easy, its not that we're trying to scumbag you out of gear
[14/06/2013 8:06:09 PM] Seth Touchette: We've established what exactly you guys are getting, its just a matter of wes sending out all the gear
[14/06/2013 8:06:17 PM] Seth Touchette: Some of which we've already placed orders for
[14/06/2013 8:06:23 PM] Seth Touchette: we've contacted gamecom and they're sending the headsets to me
[14/06/2013 8:06:35 PM] Seth Touchette: roccat, we're waiting for them to get back to us about it
[14/06/2013 8:06:58 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Ok and what are these exact items of gear exactly and is there an ETA?
[14/06/2013 8:07:43 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: From a plerys perspective this feels like scumbagging too FYI, epsecially given we were never told this gear at events thing was how it operated at Av and I have been with cR, Tek and qmX and none of them did it like this.
[14/06/2013 8:08:15 PM] Seth Touchette: Its just generally how we've done things in the past
[14/06/2013 8:08:21 PM] Seth Touchette: and how
[14/06/2013 8:08:29 PM] Seth Touchette: you guys have gear already that you use D(think)
[14/06/2013 8:08:31 PM] Seth Touchette: D: ?
[14/06/2013 8:08:42 PM] Seth Touchette: ok I guess its like
[14/06/2013 8:08:44 PM] Seth Touchette: a month or so late
[14/06/2013 8:08:50 PM] Seth Touchette: which really is a bit unacceptable
[14/06/2013 8:09:01 PM] Seth Touchette: but its not like we've been sitting there saying 'fk the sc2 team'
[14/06/2013 8:09:22 PM] Seth Touchette: and regarding ETA, I'm not sure. Wes just told me he'd placed in the requests
[14/06/2013 8:09:48 PM] Seth Touchette: cR, Tek and qmX sent it all right as you guys signed on?
[14/06/2013 8:10:02 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Yeah but from a teams perspective so far we have had 'we forgot' then we will do it at ACL Melb.
Now note this was on the 14/6, we never received anything until 28/6 ([28/06/2013 5:22:34 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: The stuff arrived today. Any chance of shirts before the LAN in Melbourne?), and it was all sent to me, it then cost me $30 to send it out to RuineD and Malice and another couple of days for shipping, This didn't phase me too much as it is just 3 players (even though we only received gear for 2) but for the WoT team I can see how this would be VERY painful having ~11 players all around AU and NZ...
[23/06/2013 11:52:23 AM] Freshmeat: bloody hwo is this
[23/06/2013 11:52:26 AM] Freshmeat: how*
[23/06/2013 11:52:34 AM] Freshmeat: wes sent me the shirts for our team
[23/06/2013 11:52:47 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Sent it just to you and you had to mail to 11 different ppl?
[23/06/2013 11:52:49 AM] Freshmeat: so i had to send them otu all over aus/nz
[23/06/2013 11:52:52 AM] Freshmeat: yeh
cost me 45 bucks so far
[23/06/2013 11:53:03 AM] Freshmeat: doing what he should
[23/06/2013 11:53:05 AM] Freshmeat: BUT
[23/06/2013 11:53:09 AM] Freshmeat: he is the clinger
now supposedly when he gets ours gear
[23/06/2013 11:53:23 AM] Freshmeat: he is sending it all to me
[23/06/2013 11:53:29 AM] Freshmeat: and i am to send it on to everyone
[23/06/2013 11:54:03 AM] Freshmeat: then it also becomes my responsibility
So then came the issue regarding gear getting mailed out. What blows my mind is how the distribution of product works. So not only are things sent to the managers and then redistributed, or lugged to a LAN and handed out but everything is sent to Wes himself whom lives in regional WA and can't drive, no wonder everything takes a while, he has to order a courier to drive to his house, pick up the items then wait for them to send it... Apparently however this is getting fixed and gear is getting sent to Seth, I sure hope so because that system is ridiculous!
So when was Savior's gear coming?
Any idea when that would be?
[12:30:40 AM] Wez AVANT, AVANT Systems: nop
[16/05/2013 12:31:13 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Dw David I will make sure you get some.
[16/05/2013 12:31:20 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Hopefully is isn't too long.
[16/05/2013 12:36:29 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: [12:35:55 AM] Wez AVANT, AVANT Systems: Keyboard: ROCCAT RYOS (IN MAY/JUNE)
[12:36:00 AM] Wez AVANT, AVANT Systems: brand new kb
[12:36:03 AM] Wez AVANT, AVANT Systems: they not out yet
Ah ok no date, damn but oh! Keyboards? Awesome! As May/June approached though we received no word of the KB's apart from that Roccat wanted to give them to the LoL team. Then at PAX Malice and I were at the Roccat booth and were told it wasn't coming out until October now, communication is a key part of running any organisation and it surprises me how such a premier org like AV can be in such shambles...
cos We asked for the gear
[23/06/2013 1:45:28 PM] Wesley Collier: before you guys came on
[23/06/2013 1:45:30 PM] Wesley Collier: with us
[23/06/2013 1:45:50 PM] Wesley Collier: for the other sc2 guys
[23/06/2013 1:47:44 PM] Wesley Collier: and the deal with roccat was 2 support two sc2 playerfs
[23/06/2013 1:47:58 PM] Wesley Collier: something ROCCAT and myself and changing to get support for that 3rd
[23/06/2013 1:48:01 PM] Wesley Collier: in the next shippment
[23/06/2013 3:19:13 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: So how did roccat/other sponsors know about the cod4 team? Like we signed before them yet they all got gear it seems...?
[23/06/2013 3:19:26 PM] Wesley Collier: the team before hand
[23/06/2013 3:19:31 PM] Wesley Collier: dont forget we had a 2nd team
[23/06/2013 3:19:39 PM] Wesley Collier: I mean a team befor them
[23/06/2013 3:24:21 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: And you arranged gear for them but they left or something and gave it to the new cod4 team?
[23/06/2013 3:33:45 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Also why was I told this just now...? Seems like something you should have told me a while ago.
[23/06/2013 3:50:15 PM] Wesley Collier: The gear was for a cod team
[23/06/2013 3:50:24 PM] Wesley Collier: i am not one the one who makes the rules
[23/06/2013 3:50:27 PM] Wesley Collier: roccat are
[23/06/2013 3:51:16 PM] Wesley Collier: also if you read
[23/06/2013 3:51:21 PM] Wesley Collier: the logs
[23/06/2013 3:51:25 PM] Wesley Collier: from awhile ago
[23/06/2013 3:51:29 PM] Wesley Collier: i did
After discussing what teams had what I was mind blown to find out the team that had signed the latest was the only one with a full set of gear, this is apparently because Roccat picks where it goes. However after having discussions with some anonymous people within AV I was informed that it was CSGO's WayToLadsy whom called the shots, would make sense given the orgs FPS orientated views as mentioned by Seth in the xG thread.. WayToLadsy was also the one working at the Roccat booth at PAX so it makes sense, this however is not confirmed and pure speculation. Also this would mean that AV hasn't actually received ANY gear from Roccat since ToR were on board, what is that 4 months now? Given as you will read below we couldn't get ANY replacement mice for ACL as the ones they gave us were faulty...
21/6/13
[9:13:06 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: da
[7:17:32 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: So was gear picked up yet Wes? Also can I have a list of what teams have received (any) gear from Av and when?
[7:19:02 PM] Freshmeat: hmmmm
[7:19:15 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Have WoT got gear?
[7:19:32 PM] Freshmeat: no
[7:19:36 PM] Freshmeat: got shirts
[7:19:44 PM] Damon Skinner: the LoL team has got some gear
[7:20:07 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: When did you guys join Av? Did you just get mice and mouspeads etc?
[7:20:19 PM] Freshmeat: we signed 2 months ago
[7:20:26 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: And LoL team?
[7:20:38 PM] Damon Skinner: we would have signed around 2 months ago aswell
[7:20:52 PM] Damon Skinner: though we were with Avant beforehand
[7:21:08 PM] Damon Skinner: lemme check when the contracts were sent in
[7:21:17 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Ok thanks
[7:21:28 PM] Freshmeat: 27/4/13 is my sign date
[7:22:12 PM] Damon Skinner: out contracts were sent in on the 16th of May
[7:22:18 PM] Damon Skinner: our*
[7:22:50 PM] Damon Skinner: and we got a mouse, mousepad, (I think some bag thing), and 2 players got headsets but no one else did
[7:23:09 PM] Damon Skinner: which seems a lot more than what anyone else go
[7:23:18 PM] Brad Allen: We've been with avant since almost the start of the year dude
[7:23:28 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: @Brad are you on the LoL team too?
[7:23:37 PM] Brad Allen: im the cappy cap of redemption
[7:24:09 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Ok ty.
[7:24:45 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: We have 2 LoL teams?
[7:25:00 PM] Damon Skinner: yeah, one was picked up like a month ago
[7:25:14 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Ah ok and the oldest one has mice and shit with 2 headsets?
[7:25:20 PM] Damon Skinner: yes
Seems a bit abysmal to me.
At this stage I was starting to give up as generally replies took weeks and nothing was happening, I was very upset I couldn't help the players simply due to a lack of communication from Wes and Seth, mainly Wes. In specific anything regarding a tournament that wasn't AVCon or ACL seemed to be tossed aside.
[5/07/2013 1:55:37 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Any word on shirts before the LAN next weekend?
[5/07/2013 1:55:53 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: All the good players are at avcon so it should be an ez top 2 for us
[5/07/2013 11:02:45 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Also Malice's costs getting to the LAN?
[7/07/2013 5:46:34 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: [Friday, 5 July 2013 1:55 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen:
<<< Any word on shirts before the LAN next weekend?
All the good players are at avcon so it should be an ez top 2 for us
Also Malice's costs getting to the LAN?
[7/07/2013 5:59:35 PM] Wesley Collier: Shirts I dont see them being done in time tho
[7/07/2013 5:59:38 PM] Wesley Collier: they are being made
[7/07/2013 5:59:43 PM] Wesley Collier: with the LoL shirts
[7/07/2013 5:59:58 PM] Wesley Collier: just depends if they can get it out to vic in time
[7/07/2013 6:00:09 PM] Wesley Collier: Umm how much does it cost
[7/07/2013 6:00:17 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I have said before but about $50
[7/07/2013 6:00:20 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: for both ways
[7/07/2013 6:00:36 PM] Wesley Collier: so $50 in total
[7/07/2013 6:00:40 PM] Wesley Collier: I cant see why not
[7/07/2013 6:00:48 PM] Wesley Collier: thing is
[7/07/2013 6:00:50 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Ok good
[7/07/2013 6:00:53 PM] Wesley Collier: we trying to save money
[7/07/2013 6:00:54 PM] Wesley Collier: for ACL
[7/07/2013 6:00:57 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Does it work through reimburse?
[7/07/2013 6:06:39 PM] Wesley Collier: yes
[7/07/2013 6:09:48 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Ok
[7/07/2013 6:15:12 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: And entry is $10 ea
and
DO you know why I was removed from content on FB?
[11/07/2013 8:51:51 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Hey so only Malice can compete in the LAN this weekend, total costs should be $86, 33 for transport there and back, 20 for entry.
[15/07/2013 3:39:39 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Wes
[15/07/2013 3:39:53 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: is there a chance of us getting shirrts for PAX
Malice and I will be there.
[15/07/2013 10:49:38 PM] Wesley Collier: Max
[15/07/2013 10:49:41 PM] Wesley Collier: 1 shirt
[15/07/2013 10:49:49 PM] Wesley Collier: you live in melb
[15/07/2013 10:49:54 PM] Wesley Collier: so I will look into it
[15/07/2013 10:49:55 PM] Wesley Collier: 2morr
Thank you for answering all my questions Wes!
Also why I was removed...
[8/07/2013 9:05:29 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: DO you know why I was removed from content on FB?
[8/07/2013 9:53:53 PM] Seth Touchette: Wes was drunk lastnight lol
[8/07/2013 9:54:05 PM] Seth Touchette: he removed the LoL Captain as well because he forgot who he was
[8/07/2013 9:54:06 PM] Seth Touchette: lol
[8/07/2013 9:54:09 PM] Seth Touchette: (y)
So eventually ACL rolled around and we got our shirts, thank god we at least got them, still though both the mice we were given for Malice and RuineD were faulty just as the LoL team had reported and would not be replaced before ACL but should be used for 'photos'...
I have been tlaking to Wes and both players who have mice (XTDs) are having a fair few issues similar to the ones the LoL people had.
[29/07/2013 5:40:49 PM] Seth Touchette: um
[29/07/2013 5:40:51 PM] Seth Touchette: lol
[29/07/2013 5:40:57 PM] Seth Touchette: dem mice
[29/07/2013 5:40:58 PM] Seth Touchette: x__x
[29/07/2013 5:41:19 PM] Seth Touchette: Aight, well we wont be able to get replacements for them
[29/07/2013 5:41:29 PM] Seth Touchette: tell players to bring their own mice, we might just have to get photos and shit
ACL was a great time though and meeting the AV Blops team was great, I really got along well with Kyle and a few of the other AV boys. We had our entry for OB paid and everything was looking good. Until everything took a turn for the worst. We were pulled aside and told that xG were replacing us seemingly with immediate effect and we were no longer needed. We saw it coming but to tell us at a live event we were still competing in is very harsh. Also not mentioning a single thing about it beforehand, effectively going behind our back and finding another team is pretty rude in my opinion. Then we got told they ran out of money and couldn't pay group fees, more will be explained later on regarding this.
So I decided I may as well threaten them of exposing the mess that is AV management etc if the players didn't get the gear they were promised only to be told my players are effectively bad and not respected in the SC2 community by someone who knows nothing about the scene.
[13/08/2013 9:49:57 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Seth we need to talk ASAP.
[13/08/2013 9:50:02 PM] Seth Touchette: yo
[13/08/2013 9:50:02 PM] Seth Touchette: sup
[13/08/2013 9:50:06 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Ok so.
[13/08/2013 9:51:11 PM] Seth Touchette: hm?
[13/08/2013 9:59:50 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Pretty much I have been pretty disappointed in regards to how the gear has worked etc. I have been with many teams and this has been by far the worst my team and I have been treated.
Unofrtunately if the contract is not followed through and the layers do not receive what they were promised I will be forced to make a blog regarding our experience with AV.
What I expect is, Malice's travel to ACL Melbourne covered,he $50 for Groups that Savior paid reimbursed, a headset each, mousepad and bungee for Savior and the faulty mice replaced. I would also like to discuss the possible funding of PART of Savior's flight from NZ.
Also I presume our contract will run its course and not be ended early despite the annoucnement of xG's consumption coming so soon.
Also the only difference between us and xG I feel is KK, I said I would look for a t1 player and I did, hwoever they rarely come up. Poker and Myuu are the same skill level Malice and Savior and their results certainly showed that this weekend. RuineD is also really good but has played so little this year due to school and other commitments yet he still performed just as good as Satu...
[13/08/2013 10:00:40 PM] Seth Touchette: lol
[13/08/2013 10:00:58 PM] Seth Touchette: Malice being the
[13/08/2013 10:01:01 PM] Seth Touchette: NZ?
[13/08/2013 10:01:07 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Savior is from NZ
[13/08/2013 10:01:14 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: [Tuesday, 13 August 2013 9:59 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen:
<<< Savior's flight from NZ
[13/08/2013 10:01:21 PM] Seth Touchette: ah
[13/08/2013 10:01:22 PM] Seth Touchette: kk
[13/08/2013 10:03:04 PM] Seth Touchette: well
[13/08/2013 10:03:05 PM] Seth Touchette: to be fair
[13/08/2013 10:03:12 PM] Seth Touchette: actually
[13/08/2013 10:03:15 PM] Seth Touchette: better not say that
[13/08/2013 10:03:24 PM] Seth Touchette: until I go through and get things confirmed
[13/08/2013 10:03:33 PM] Seth Touchette: I'll give you an official response tomorrow
[13/08/2013 10:03:40 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Ok thanks.
[13/08/2013 10:03:42 PM] Seth Touchette: [Tuesday, 13 August 2013 9:59 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen:
<<< Also the only difference between us and xG I feel is KK, I said I would look for a t1 player and I did, hwoever they rarely come up. Poker and Myuu are the same skill level Malice and Savior and their results certainly showed that this weekend. RuineD is also really good but has played so little this year due to school and other commitments yet he still performed just as good as Satu...
[13/08/2013 10:03:43 PM] Seth Touchette: also
[13/08/2013 10:03:44 PM] Seth Touchette: regarding that
[13/08/2013 10:04:14 PM] Seth Touchette: the main differences between you / xG is that they are respected.
[13/08/2013 10:04:18 PM] Seth Touchette: no offense intended
[13/08/2013 10:04:41 PM] Seth Touchette: Thats just based on what I've perceived from when I talk to players / individuals in the scene
[13/08/2013 10:04:48 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I am not sure what you mean by that as Myuu and Poker do not interact with anyone and neither doe KK.
[13/08/2013 10:05:05 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: RuineD was BM in maybe 2011 but all of them are fine now.
[13/08/2013 10:05:06 PM] Seth Touchette: ok Ill give you an example
[13/08/2013 10:05:09 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Idk who you are talking to.
[13/08/2013 10:05:26 PM] Seth Touchette: I'm talking to an individual whos highly noted in the SC2 scene
[13/08/2013 10:05:34 PM] Seth Touchette: I ask him about my SC2 lineup
[13/08/2013 10:05:34 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Arnor...?
[13/08/2013 10:05:35 PM] Seth Touchette: and he goes
[13/08/2013 10:05:37 PM] Seth Touchette: who?
[13/08/2013 10:05:37 PM] Seth Touchette: wtf
[13/08/2013 10:05:38 PM] Seth Touchette: LOL
[13/08/2013 10:05:39 PM] Seth Touchette: not arnor
[13/08/2013 10:06:01 PM] Seth Touchette: Nah I probably won't give his name even if you guess it, someone who I trust / doesn't have a conflicting opinion
[13/08/2013 10:06:10 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Inb4 it was someone from mGG
[13/08/2013 10:06:19 PM] Seth Touchette: hes neutral in the sc2 scene
[13/08/2013 10:06:22 PM] Seth Touchette: he hadn't heard of you
[13/08/2013 10:06:24 PM] Seth Touchette: or the SC2 players
[13/08/2013 10:06:31 PM] Seth Touchette: and hes been around for a long time
[13/08/2013 10:06:32 PM] Seth Touchette: lol
[13/08/2013 10:06:34 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Clearly he knows borderline nothing.
[13/08/2013 10:06:40 PM] Seth Touchette: ok
[13/08/2013 10:06:42 PM] Seth Touchette: sure
[13/08/2013 10:06:56 PM] Seth Touchette: but that wasnt meant to be a snipe at you
[13/08/2013 10:06:58 PM] Seth Touchette: you included it
[13/08/2013 10:07:02 PM] Seth Touchette: I thought I'd just rebuttle
[13/08/2013 10:07:15 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Malice is prettty active on the forum and so was Savior almost all of 2012. Malice has posted good results and tlaks with many of the top tier players frequently.
[13/08/2013 10:07:42 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: The fact that wou have the nerve to 'rebut' what I am asking and telling us that we aren't respected is very insulting.
[13/08/2013 10:08:19 PM] Seth Touchette: Why
[13/08/2013 10:08:26 PM] Seth Touchette: the fact that you would include that
[13/08/2013 10:08:28 PM] Seth Touchette: is insulting
[13/08/2013 10:09:10 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I say they are the same skill level and you come up with 'you guys aren't repsected', this guy doesnt even know who you are yet thinks you are bad mannered. I find that rude.
[13/08/2013 10:09:43 PM] Seth Touchette: [Tuesday, 13 August 2013 10:03 PM] Seth Touchette:
<<< Also the only difference between us and xG I feel is KK
[13/08/2013 10:09:49 PM] Seth Touchette: I gave you another difference
[13/08/2013 10:09:57 PM] Seth Touchette: you find that difference rude
[13/08/2013 10:11:19 PM] Seth Touchette: I also told you
[13/08/2013 10:11:27 PM] Seth Touchette: that we wanted to focus on a T1 player
[13/08/2013 10:11:36 PM] Seth Touchette: being one of the main reasons
[13/08/2013 10:11:44 PM] Seth Touchette: for the lineup swap
[13/08/2013 10:12:21 PM] Seth Touchette: but w/e
[14/08/2013 9:12:19 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Let me know ASAP when you have a response, I would like to know before 1pm
[14/08/2013 9:13:28 AM] Seth Touchette: wes generally doesnt wake up before 1pm our time
[14/08/2013 9:13:59 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Ok then no problem
[14/08/2013 3:48:56 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: If no response by 9:30 I will be making the post to sc2sea, teamliquid and cybergamer regarding everything that has happened since we signed the contract.
[14/08/2013 3:50:50 PM] Seth Touchette: oh
[14/08/2013 3:50:53 PM] Seth Touchette: by the way
[14/08/2013 3:50:55 PM] Seth Touchette: regarding NZ flights
[14/08/2013 3:50:59 PM] Seth Touchette: we never agreed to pay for them
[14/08/2013 3:51:05 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I know
[14/08/2013 3:51:08 PM] Seth Touchette: however the flights we did agree to pay for
[14/08/2013 3:51:09 PM] Seth Touchette: we will do so
[14/08/2013 3:51:22 PM] Seth Touchette: we aren't paying any of the NZ flights
[14/08/2013 3:53:08 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: You said you could perhaps pay part at ACL, glad to know you can now pay nothing. There were no other flights just Malice's payment for the train.
[14/08/2013 3:53:50 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: [Tuesday, 13 August 2013 9:59 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen:
<<< What I expect is, Malice's travel to ACL Melbourne covered,he $50 for Groups that Savior paid reimbursed, a headset each, mousepad and bungee for Savior and the faulty mice replaced. I would also like to discuss the possible funding of PART of Savior's flight from NZ.Good to know one thing already cannot be met.
[14/08/2013 3:54:05 PM] Seth Touchette: Well
[14/08/2013 3:54:15 PM] Seth Touchette: considering the fact that you're essentially threatening us
[14/08/2013 3:54:40 PM] Seth Touchette: we're not going to pay anything that we didn't intially said we would look at
[14/08/2013 3:56:08 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I am 99% sure I ahve logs form Wes and will go through the contract as I am pretty sure it isyour duty to cover the cost. It saddens me as I have never ahd to do this with any team I have ever been with. 3 months apparently isn't enough to provide what was promised in both that verbal skype chat and text chat.
[14/08/2013 4:19:40 PM] Seth Touchette: [3:49:03 PM] Wesley Collier: THey have gear only savior does not
[14/08/2013 4:20:11 PM] Seth Touchette: which is what you said
[14/08/2013 4:20:12 PM] Seth Touchette: ok
[14/08/2013 4:20:52 PM] Seth Touchette: what mouse
[14/08/2013 4:20:55 PM] Seth Touchette: was faulty
[14/08/2013 4:23:14 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Both XTDs that Malice and RuineD have
[14/08/2013 4:23:25 PM] Seth Touchette: How are they faulty
[14/08/2013 4:23:25 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: same issue as the LoL boys when we discussed it I think you said
[14/08/2013 4:23:32 PM] Seth Touchette: kk
[14/08/2013 4:28:42 PM] Seth Touchette: Gonna have to paste some of the quotes for us
[14/08/2013 4:28:43 PM] Seth Touchette: to confirm
[14/08/2013 4:29:03 PM] Seth Touchette: 1 sec
[14/08/2013 4:29:25 PM] Seth Touchette: - We won't pay for the flights from NZ
[14/08/2013 4:29:32 PM] Seth Touchette: The Trains alright - we agreed to pay that
[14/08/2013 4:29:42 PM | Edited 4:31:43 PM] Seth Touchette: if you want a mouse bungee and mousepad then that can be arranged
[14/08/2013 4:32:26 PM] Seth Touchette: how many headsets
[14/08/2013 4:33:03 PM] Seth Touchette: just 3?
[14/08/2013 4:33:15 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: 3, also Savior had to pay $50 for both him and Malice for the groups at ACL.
[14/08/2013 4:33:16 PM] Seth Touchette: As far as im concerned, everything we agreed to give / pay in the contract will be paid
[14/08/2013 4:33:20 PM] Seth Touchette: everything else
[14/08/2013 4:33:22 PM] Seth Touchette: nada
[14/08/2013 4:33:25 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I agree too.
[14/08/2013 4:34:28 PM] Seth Touchette: Also
[14/08/2013 4:34:38 PM] Seth Touchette: did any of you guys participate in the online ACL qualifers?
[14/08/2013 4:35:09 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: No, we discussed it at some point none of them had the chance.
[14/08/2013 4:35:30 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Savior was overseas for both, Malice can't play SEA and I think RuineD was on holidays and then had school from memory.
[14/08/2013 4:35:52 PM] Seth Touchette: iirc that was something that wes / you agreed to when coming on.
[14/08/2013 4:36:57 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: That we would play in the ACL quals?
[14/08/2013 4:37:48 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I am sure if Wes goes through logs he will see when I said they couldn't due to the reasons stated above. Also the contract states that events/tournaments etc do not have to be played if certain things are met, all of which are true for these situations
[14/08/2013 4:42:55 PM] Seth Touchette: well
[14/08/2013 4:43:23 PM] Seth Touchette: the contract doesn't state anything regarding servers - iirc he signed up and went to play but then they wouldn't change servers
[14/08/2013 4:44:04 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I think he did play in one of them and yes his opponents refused to play on NA
[14/08/2013 9:30:01 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Do I have a defnite repsonse if they will get what I asked?
[14/08/2013 9:30:24 PM] Seth Touchette: yes its fine
[14/08/2013 9:30:33 PM] Seth Touchette: I'll be honest, its more that we want to do the right thing then being worried about a post
[14/08/2013 9:30:37 PM] Seth Touchette: no offense of course
[14/08/2013 9:30:39 PM] Seth Touchette: but
[14/08/2013 9:30:42 PM] Seth Touchette: thats just how we feel about it
[14/08/2013 9:31:14 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: It is good that you want to do the right thing.
So any ETA on headsets, mice etc?
[14/08/2013 9:31:45 PM] Seth Touchette: when I get my suitcase base
[14/08/2013 9:31:46 PM] Seth Touchette: back
[14/08/2013 9:31:47 PM] Seth Touchette: sec ingame
[14/08/2013 9:41:11 PM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: kk
[18/08/2013 9:44:20 AM] Seth Touchette: was more I just wanted to apologize
[18/08/2013 9:44:31 AM] Seth Touchette: was reflecting on what I was saying
[18/08/2013 9:44:35 AM | Edited 9:45:03 AM] Seth Touchette: It was pretty rude
[18/08/2013 9:44:39 AM | Removed 9:44:57 AM] Seth Touchette: This message has been removed.
[18/08/2013 9:45:08 AM] Seth Touchette: so ya, sorry about that.
[18/08/2013 10:06:55 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: It is ok bro, I put you in a tough position and I didn't really want to just I really wanted what is best for the players and I felt they were getting really hard done by.
Hopefully we can sought this shit out as it has certainly been a rough couple of months.
[18/08/2013 11:22:14 AM] Seth Touchette: (y)
[18/08/2013 11:22:29 AM] Seth Touchette: our first priority is to get the rest of the prizes out for avcon
[18/08/2013 11:23:20 AM] Seth Touchette: your gear is in melbourne @ a police station. On the way back to adelaide the fkin taxi driver drove off with out luggage in the back.
[18/08/2013 11:24:56 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: Jesus.
[18/08/2013 11:25:05 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: That is horrible, but ok sounds cool. Let me know what happens
[18/08/2013 11:25:23 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I can understand you being stressed -.-
[18/08/2013 11:26:42 AM] Seth Touchette: I'll keep you updated
[18/08/2013 11:27:24 AM] Seth Touchette: and yeah
[18/08/2013 11:27:38 AM] Seth Touchette: kinda all on me to get everything sorted lol x__x
[1:23:29 AM] Seth Touchette: mind leaving the chat or do we have to make a new one?
[1:26:22 AM] Seth Touchette: and why are you posting the blog
[1:27:08 AM] Seth Touchette: I mean, if it happens it sucks, but we're more focused on next year anyway. We had every intention of reembursing you next quarter when we got paid by our sponsors
[1:27:10 AM] Seth Touchette: so
[1:27:11 AM] Seth Touchette: x_x
[1:27:58 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I wsa going to post the blog regardless just depends really on what I decide to include in it. I will leave the chat once I sought everything out.
[1:29:25 AM] Seth Touchette: I understand that we really didn't treat you all that well, but in the end it doesn't really make you look all that fine for potential management postions in other orgs.
[1:29:32 AM] Seth Touchette: /shrugs
[1:29:44 AM] Seth Touchette: Just from my opinion
So all in all you can see how our experience with AV was. I REALLY hope they are good to xG as KK etc really deserve their support and are great players unfortunately I have been told they have a div1 and div2 system in place with only KK in div1, I am just waiting to watch support for all the div2 players to completely drop off and as I said in the xG thread be able to say 'I told you so'. Please prove me wrong AV, PLEASE!
Another thing I want to note is the decision making, I was told at ACL the fray LoL team hadn't been paid for AVCon and this was later explained to me by Seth, I hope you guys get paid soon as it is a fair bit of money I am sure you need and deserve. Then I was also informed that AV is buying a second organisation (Sequential Gaming) and asked to buy Qlimax-Crew a page that they did not realise I had admin on, this is mind boggling in my eyes as the amount of money (~1.5k) I heard was going in to this is absurd given the lack of support to players and me being told they are literally broke until next quarter (October)...
[1:23:29 AM] Seth Touchette: mind leaving the chat or do we have to make a new one?
[1:26:22 AM] Seth Touchette: and why are you posting the blog
[1:27:08 AM] Seth Touchette: I mean, if it happens it sucks, but we're more focused on next year anyway. We had every intention of reembursing you next quarter when we got paid by our sponsors
[1:27:10 AM] Seth Touchette: so
[1:27:11 AM] Seth Touchette: x_x
[1:27:58 AM] Maxim 'MezjE' Allen: I wsa going to post the blog regardless just depends really on what I decide to include in it. I will leave the chat once I sought everything out.
I still expect what was agreed to in the resolution and what is stated in the contract to be carried out.
AVANT shall provide the Player with up to five (5) products from ROCCAT’s range of PC items, one (1) product from Plantronic’s range of products and one (1) shirt to be worn at tournaments or other activities where the Player is representing AVANT
Here is what we have as of now and what we are awaiting as discussed previously:
- 3 Mice (2 Faulty)
- 2 Mouse Bungees
- 2 Mouspeads
- 4 Shirts
What is outstanding stated inn the contract:
- 3 Headsets
- $50 for groups and Malice's travel costs of ~$30
In conclusion I can say myself, RuineD, Savior and Malice were very unhappy with our time in Avant. The lack of communication and respect between players and management was disgusting and it makes me sad a premier organisation such as AV could now do this to two SC2 teams, hopefully third times the charm. Also buying other brands, announcing sponsors left right and center whilst not supporting players is truly disgusting and makes me feel as though their players are expendable.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. There maybe be a few spelling and grammatical mistakes in which case I apologize for.
EDIT: More evidence from MKR (MackRo) whom was part of AV's senior management for a long time before Wes took over in a response on the thread I also made on cybergamer:
I know from personal experience and talking to wes that he has taken stuff for himself before handing/sending stuff to player's even had one of the player's come and complain to me about it 2 weeks ago. Mind you this is maybe 3 or so months after i was kicked from AVANT.
"oh man
i dunnno
how u delt
with wez
for so long
with out kicking him"
"what hasnt he done
wait
he hasnt done
anything at all
i was ment to get my avant jersey"
"gg for wez stealing all the products
to make his own computer"
(Not going to name this person or say what team he is from)
___________________________________
I keep it real bruv.
Last edited by MezjE; Tue, 20th-Aug-2013 at 6:27 PM.
Don't say we didn't warn you, looking forward to saying 'I told you so'
Matt: I told Satu and Arnor a lot about how miserable our experience was. Long blog will be up tomorrow.
So tell us why we should have kept you over XG. You guys don't play in any weekly tournaments. I'm a LoL Manager and I can see you not making your players do anything to represent AVANT and their sponsors and not even as yourselves as players. I'm looking forward to see what you blog you will post up
so tell us why we should have kept you over xg. You guys don't play in any weekly tournaments. I'm a lol manager and i can see you not making your players do anything to represent avant and their sponsors and not even as yourselves as players. I'm looking forward to see what you blog you will post up
So tell us why we should have kept you over XG. You guys don't play in any weekly tournaments. I'm a LoL Manager and I can see you not making your players do anything to represent AVANT and their sponsors and not even as yourselves as players. I'm looking forward to see what you blog you will post up
I have played in wT weekly almost every week since being in Avant. Why should I represent a team that can't even pay my $30 train tickets to an event because they're 5k in debt because they ran a tournament they can't pay for?
___________________________________
- @MaliceSC2
Last edited by Malice; Mon, 19th-Aug-2013 at 9:57 PM.
So tell us why we should have kept you over XG. You guys don't play in any weekly tournaments. I'm a LoL Manager and I can see you not making your players do anything to represent AVANT and their sponsors and not even as yourselves as players. I'm looking forward to see what you blog you will post up
I will do a brief summary...
I asked for many things that were never given, it took weeks for anything to be replied to, the boys do play in weekly tournaments, you know nothing. I got told by management my team was not respected and bad pretty much then told at an event that they were getting a another team BEFORE our contract was over without having even fulfilling their part of the bargain. Then telling me 'soz we ran out of money'. I was removed from the FB page because someone was 'drunk'. I have been a manager for a while and have had my fair share of rough times but this treatment was utterly disgusting and no player should have to go through it.
Sorry you don't see how bad everything is their, probs blinded by the team house etc you are getting promised, have fun playing LoL. The blog tomorrow will be more in depth and feature Skype logs, the fact I had top practically threaten senior management to get anywhere is a testimony to how horrible the level of communication is there and the lack of respect to anyone they don't think will perform. Can't wait to watch KK get treated like a king and everyone else tossed to the side!
___________________________________
I keep it real bruv.
This thread proudly brought to you by Poppin Popcorn, Australia's leading microwave popcorn brand.
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This thread proudly brought to you by Poppin Popcorn, Australia's leading microwave popcorn brand.
Poppin Microwave Popcorn burst onto the scene in 1991 and has been turning a movie night at home into a cinema experience ever since. Poppin is proudly made from Australian corn and is a source of fibre. Poppin Microwave Popcorn isn’t just for eating while watching movies at home either. It’s also a great lunch box treat or delicious snack for the whole family.
This thread proudly brought to you by Poppin Popcorn, Australia's leading microwave popcorn brand.
Poppin Microwave Popcorn burst onto the scene in 1991 and has been turning a movie night at home into a cinema experience ever since. Poppin is proudly made from Australian corn and is a source of fibre. Poppin Microwave Popcorn isn’t just for eating while watching movies at home either. It’s also a great lunch box treat or delicious snack for the whole family.
This episode of SC2SEA brought to you by Poppin Popcorn.
In this episode, Av. now has a new team consisting of the former Xeria Gaming boys managed by Arnor. Will Av finally get their shit together? Or will the players join the other two former teams and call Av out on their ever so known bad management of SC2 players?
Stay tuned on SC2SEA.
___________________________________
NA | KR.
Known for a time as mGGCrayonPop and mGGxJieun
Q_Q'd.
Wrote a pretty impressive couple paragraphs only to be gutted by my archnemsis, the F5 button. I'll do an official reply after work tomorrow, hopefully before this monster of a blog gets released.
Regarding AVCON money, 1st Place LoL boys and SC2 have all been paid. Just waiting on the additional funds for the last two LoL teams. It will be paid, even if both Wes and I have to bankroll it ourselves.
Last edited by SethT; Tue, 20th-Aug-2013 at 12:14 AM.
So tell us why we should have kept you over
XG. You guys don't play in any weekly tournaments. I'm a LoL Manager
and I can see you not making your players do anything to represent
AVANT and their sponsors and not even as yourselves as players. I'm
looking forward to see what you blog you will post up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Av.MezjE
I will do a brief summary...
I asked for many things that were never given, it took weeks for
anything to be replied to, the boys do play in weekly tournaments, you
know nothing. I got told by management my team was not respected and
bad pretty much then told at an event that they were getting a another
team BEFORE our contract was over without having even fulfilling their
part of the bargain. Then telling me 'soz we ran out of money'. I was
removed from the FB page because someone was 'drunk'. I have been a
manager for a while and have had my fair share of rough times but this
treatment was utterly disgusting and no player should have to go
through it.
Sorry you don't see how bad everything is their, probs blinded by the
team house etc you are getting promised, have fun playing LoL. The
blog tomorrow will be more in depth and feature Skype logs, the fact I
had top practically threaten senior management to get anywhere is a
testimony to how horrible the level of communication is there and the
lack of respect to anyone they don't think will perform. Can't wait to
watch KK get treated like a king and everyone else tossed to the
side!
What? You've never gotten drunk and made a mistake before? Bit of a low blow. Your entire post just feels like a whole lot of over exaggeration in terms of how 'badly' you were treated. As an individual, you were given the same respect as any individual or team that first joined the organization. Respect is earned, not just given freely, and you have done very little to deserve it from any of us.
Your threats were little to us compared to what we felt was the right thing to do. We felt that we should come through with what we had initially included for you guys.
I took you aside @ Lan and respectfully explained why we had decided to do a line-up swap, more importantly I explained why. Our goals for next year are to have a SC2 player we can send internationally. Better than most I think. You guys seemed like decent blokes IRL, hell if I could fund people on just being nice guys, then you would pass the bar. A lot of the SC2 guys I met @ Lan last weekend seem like top blokes.
I don't really like posting things that leave a sour taste in my mouth. I'll leave this on a positive note, after meeting the ex-xG blokes @ ACL, I'm really happy to have them onboard. Cool guys who I think will fit right at home with the rest of the teams. Suffice to say we just keep learning and learning from SC2. Believe it or not, I want AVANT to be established as a positive point in the SC2 SEA world. I'm aware it’s going to take work but hopefully come this time next year, we would've come to earn this communities respect.
You guys seemed like decent blokes IRL, hell if I could fund people on just being nice guys, then you would pass the bar. A lot of the SC2 guys I met @ Lan last weekend seem like top blokes.
This was how ToR felt we were treated, like second-tier players who aren't "worthy" of Avant's almighty sponsorship.
Sure, we were second tier players. We were good, but we weren't pig/iaguz/moonglade/kingkong etc material. Let's be honest, you couldn't AFFORD those types of players. You NEED to be aware of who you're picking up and what you're promising BEFORE you recruit players. You can't backpedal midway through picking up a team and start berating the team and saying "you're just second tier so we feel we have no obligation to do any sort of funding etc".
That's pathetic, people aren't going out of their way to promote your brand for nothing. It's insulting to the players involved, and will only damage relationships.
I suggest you become aware of who you're dealing with before you recruit them, rather than deciding midway through the relationship that they should continue representing you whilst you do nothing for them.
This is exactly why I didn't want to sign that phony contract, it gives Avant all of the power and the players are promised nothing for it. You can decide not to give the players anything, whilst they will still have to represent you.
I'm really glad I joined SLCN, they have been far superior in every way to Avant. I'm not angry at you personally Seth, but Avant reeks of unprofessional behavior.
I'll be interested to see if you have a response for this, and if you feel like you've wronged anyone with this mentality that you put on display in a public forum.
Last edited by SLCNPezz; Tue, 20th-Aug-2013 at 1:10 AM.
This was how ToR felt we were treated, like second-tier players who aren't "worthy" of Avant's almighty sponsorship.
Sure, we were second tier players. We were good, but we weren't pig/iaguz/moonglade/kingkong etc material. Let's be honest, you couldn't AFFORD those types of players. You NEED to be aware of who you're picking up and what you're promising BEFORE you recruit players. You can't backpedal midway through picking up a team and start berating the team and saying "you're just second tier so we feel we have no obligation to do any sort of funding etc".
That's pathetic, people aren't going out of their way to promote your brand for nothing. It's insulting to the players involved, and will only damage relationships.
I suggest you become aware of who you're dealing with before you recruit them, rather than deciding midway through the relationship that they should continue representing you whilst you do nothing for them.
This is exactly why I didn't want to sign that phony contract, it gives Avant all of the power and the players are promised nothing for it. You can decide not to give the players anything, whilst they will still have to represent you.
I'm really glad I joined SLCN, they have been far superior in every way to Avant. I'm not angry at you personally Seth, but Avant reeks of unprofessional behavior.
I'll be interested to see if you have a response for this, and if you feel like you've wronged anyone with this mentality that you put on display in a public forum.
Just going to answer paragraph by paragraph.
When you print it out straight black and white like that it makes a lot of sense. I'll flat out say again, we're learning and this whole 2nd tier mentality you're talking about has come straight from our FPS / LoL backgrounds (related to the co-owners) where being the best = funding.
100% agree with your suggestion, already something that's been noted down when I reflected on everything.
The original contract that we sent you was rubbish, I agree. Our final rendition (not sure whether you saw it or not) has worked so far, anyone who goes ahead and informs us its a bad contract, I'm willing to argue that to the bone.
Can't really / not my place to comment about SLCN, inregards to SC2 previously in Avant, couldn't agree more. We've shaped up the rest of the org for what we have planned upcoming / next year, with Chris coming aboard we intend to make sure xG get the best / smoothest possible reception internally and for the duration of the contract.
Regarding this mentality, I'm an honest person and I prefer speaking what I feel. I generally try and incorporate what I feel into the posts I made, which is why a lot of the time I suck at this PR business. To answer your question, whatever I say now I feel won't be an accurate reflection. I'll sleep on it, think about it, then reply sometime tomorrow. Suffice to say you've at least got me thinking.
Generally if they're unwilling to give up the person they're getting information from (in regards to who is good in the SC2 scene), they're not getting information from anyone. They're just making shit up.
Reading through this, I can't say I'm surprised. 90% of e-sports orgs are like this.
So tell us why we should have kept you over XG. You guys don't play in any weekly tournaments. I'm a LoL Manager and I can see you not making your players do anything to represent AVANT and their sponsors and not even as yourselves as players. I'm looking forward to see what you blog you will post up
Retard....
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