Hi, i just played a game where i went 1 gate expand into the usual collosus tech against zerg. he went roaches and corrupters to counter me, in which i decided to switch to high templars and archons. however he came out with broodlords and owned me. please help!
I'm only Platinum myself, so feel free to ignore what I say, but after watching the replay the biggest thing I noticed was probe production. ~14 mins in taking a 3rd and you only have 45 probes. Secondly, he wasted a hell of a lot of roaches trying to bust into your natural and then didn't reproduce at all for a good few minutes. Could definitely have pushed out and at least pressured while you took your third.
Lastly would be forcefield usage, when he crushed your army with roach corruptor you have about 5 or 6 sentries with full energy and didnt cast a single forcefield or guardian shield.
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Azz had a chance at this one point in the game where he had a nexus and 6 probes. But he found a way to **** it up from there 3 times in a row - Iaguz
I understand that you are silver so i do not expect optimal builds, but on Shakuras, it is THE safest map for Forge expand. I won't advocate that as cheese such as roach/ling or nydus are much harder to hold off but just keep in mind if ever you want to learn to Forge expand, choose shakuras.
I'll help with the whole game - little and big things in your play that lead up to the late game. Often times it's not the late game, but also the flow into it. Ofcourse, the zerg didn't play optimally either but i'm watching from your vision so you can easily fix these . I will talk about late game but just giving you overall tips!
Anyway, let's get in to early game issues first:
- Forgot probes in gas. Early game you should be thinking much clearer about what to do next. Just make a checklist in your head. Gate, Gas, Put on gas, Pylon, Core, Zealot, probe scout micro etc. The gas actually is very important
- Pylon is not placed correctly. Place the pylon at the ramp, it will help to wall off with the nexus easier and amplify the effect of your zealot/sentries early (less area to cover.)
- If you 1 gate expand, you should block off with the gateways. This makes you much more cheese proof.
- Forge and gateway go down for a delayed awkward block. If you don't wall off with the initial 2 gates, don't bother with that. Put them around your mineral lines to restrict ling movement if anything.
- Earlier, better placed cannon in your natural.
Also to point out - you should try to hide a probe. Especially with a gateway expand, you can send an early zeal to the watchtower and in that time send a probe. If you are scared about what they are doing, that probe can pop in and have a look for a 3rd or the drone count. Can also put down some sneaky beaky pylons
Not to be a drag, here are some positives:
- very good macro. Never missing a pylon, chronoing probes properly
- Solid overall build. Nicely timed, not missing a unit
- Good Upgrades!
Ok, the mid game is now well and truly with us and let me look at the position of both players (12:45):
Zerg - Sick money bank, heavy supply of roaches, limited tech. This probably means the zerg will not be able to attack with anything but roaches after this attack for a while. Also worker lead
Options for him:
- Expand, take gas, opt for a number of techs (spire - roach corruptor or roach/muta) or infestor (hive, or just mass fungal). Hydras are similar to roaches and with collosus you wouldn't worry about taht.
or
- Play gay zerg --> Basically just hammer roaches at you in every way. Deny your 3rd and starve you out basically, Use good roach upgrades to pull this off ---> Your options against this are both covered well. You have a very high sentry count with good energy, collosus tech, and one think i would mention is as you take a 3rd, get blink tech. It is amazing.
Protoss - Bit behind on workers. Your chronos and your actual probe production has dwindled, and if focusing on the late game you want AT LEAST 50 probes at this time. You aren't far off the minimum, but you want to maximize probes. Your tech is solid and you are very safe.
Options for you:
Sit on 2 bases, build up collosus/get blink, get an extra 2 gateways, attack. This is not a macro game and we won't focus on this, as your problem you want to solve is late game
or
Take 3rd, add in blink. This gives you a very nice solid benchmark to work off of. Blinkstalker/collosus/sentry is the ultimate on shakuras, holding that 3rd is lovely, and twilight opens up DT harass (and archons, which help late game) and storm (as you say you did.)
So let's take a look at what happens and what you can do better and do to prepare for late game.
- You lost a couple sentries due to positioning but not a big deal at all, you destroyed his army --> Luckily for him his macro is actaully really really off and he can remake that army and more tech to go with it.
- You gained a sufficient victory with that fight around 13:50, and you instead stay back and make gates. You have a small window of breathing room where you can fall down to the low ground and take that 3rd. Take that opportunity.
- I'm not a protoss expert, but i think with collosus play it is always fun to take the forward expansion more, and take the back one later. Sure, broodlords are more threatening to the forward one later on, but if you take it earlier it will also mine out earlier. Expansion could have been earlier but overall decent timing.
- You need more observers. Have 1 with your army for creep/burrow, and 1 checking where his army is and the count. You had an army in the middle watch tower with no idea what he had. At that time you could have pushed to the 3rd, killed it, and walked out. Also utilizing blink would make this much more appealing to pull off. Just remember for the late game that the less bases the zerg has the less broodlords he will liekly have.
- You see the corruptors poking around - blink !! Pick them off. The zerg is likely to be maxed, 4 lost corruptors is replaced with.. 4corruptors, and zerg can't do much until they come out.
- Your attack was going great but you didn't use all your forcefields, and did not get full effect of your stalkers. I know you aren't a tip top GM, but if you use blink (i know im repeating a lot :P) you can just blink back the most vulnerable patch of stalkers once or twice and that can often decide a fight like that much more favorably for the protoss. I did like the retreat though, but your sentries were scared T_T.
- GAS GAS GAS! Remember to get your gas at 3rd! SO important for protoss, especially late game, Just stockpile it if you aren't using it, HT's, DT's and Void rays will love you (Also Mothership)
ok around 21 minutes now, i'll start late game!
- You add 3 more gates. 1. These should be blocking another base and 2. I reckon in preparation of late game, add in 2 Stargates. Stargates late game are boss, they lead to mothership, and voidrays are awkward at times to attack in to as zerg. Since you have that 3rd too, cannon it up, block with said gates (or sg's even) and tkae a 4th.
Just gotta mention, i love your play. Just fix your fundamental army use and you'll dominate. Your macro is very good.
- At about 23:40, Lings run by and a battle goes on. you DOMINATE the battle, and if you had a wall at your 3rd (/w cannons), you could do another warp in and take control if his 3rd high ground, and kill 2 bases. That's basically game ending.
- The archons are very good, but you should also add in stargates. Storm is a good help but i think feedback/archons are much better (which you are using, at least archons so far.) Just remember to add in a stargate or two. A mothership + archons destroys broods, as well as well micro'd void rays (if not too many infestors are out)
- 26:30 Great!! You are destroying his expansions. As i said before, less bases is less broodlords (or at the very least, less ability to make more than 1 batch.). I just think that if you are doing this well, all you can lose to is a broodlord army, and void rays take care of this. If you get +1 with the Cyber and 6 or so voids with stalker support, a long with a storm or two, Corruptors are made extinct and broodlords are unprotected.
- I swear you had this one. As soon as you see 1. No bases and 2. Mass broodlord, SAVE EVERYTHING YOU CAN. Abuse how slow they are, and as said before get stargate units. They destroy low-eco zerg late game. If anything.
- DT shrine is always nice to add too. Make archons still if short on gas, and makes the zerg stay home with his army while you get up voids, or mass storm/archon.
- You kept blinking constant inefficient groups of stalkers too. much better to actaully base trade (let him kill main/nat, you kill 3rd) and mass cannon. This is not the tip top best idea, but in the situation you got into, try things like that and see how it goes. Your gateways are in your main though ~_~
So yeh, to sum up key points (TL;DR):
- Tighten early game building positioning, as well as mid/late game positioning (block new expansions with 3 gates)
- Use your army more effectively. If you win a fight, tech or expand. Blink -> 3rd base is optimal.
- Forward base on shakuras is nice with collosus, but either is fine
- Blink 1 or 2 groups of stalkers back in fights so that all stalkers are taking similar damage, it would have won you the game at 2 points
- Observers to scout his army!!
- DT's make archons too, and can kill his bases easier than your army can, risk wise (means you can conserve archons, >>> broodlings and broodlords)
- Zerg can only remake broodlords depending on their base count. If they are low - Stargate units! If they are high, a good mix of everything (Storm, Archon, Collosus, Void Ray, Mothership even -> Vortex + archon the broodlords)
Just giving you a lot to think about! Sorry if i went a bit too much into the lead up or i am too critical, just a basic analysis that went for too long ;D
Wow that was really in-depth! Thanks a lot EdgE! I will definitely keep a look out of the pointers that you've mentioned! And thanks for the compliments, but i'm pretty sure my macro isn't too good just yet! (:
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