Apologies if some games are in the wrong order/folder, and also a few are missing. It's been very hard and tedious to get my hands on all of these games and upload/format them.
Added the following matches to my FTP: http://www.sea-play.com/replays/NRG/
* aLt.iaguz vs vT.Azz
* ST_Ace vs YoonYJ
* aLt.iaguz vs FXOFilthy
* TA.Sanchez vs FXOtgun
nGenLight is currently up 2-0 against aLt.YoonYJ in a best of 5 to decide who will play aLt.iaguz in the semi-finals.
ST_Ace is waiting patiently in the grand final for these guys to battle it out.
P.S. More replays on the FTP.
I've created the Round 7 / Semi Final / Grand Final folders but there's no replays in there yet - games are still being played!
nGen.Light takes out aLt.iaguz 3-2 in a NAILBITING series for the semi-final. At last, we have our grand finalist to step up against ST_Ace!
Prize is:
1st: $8,000 and some crazy awesome PC (valued at like $4500 or something)
2nd: $3,000 and a huge bundle of Razer stuff
3rd: $1,000 and a huge bundle of Razer stuff!
4th-10th: Huge bundles of Razer stuff!
ST_Ace is up 2-0 so far, taking a quick 3 minute and 58 second game from nGen.Light on Scrap Station with a proxy gate! UPDATE: nGen.Light takes a game back from ST_Ace! This best of 7 Grand Final is sitting at 2-1 with the StarTale IEM Champion in the lead! UPDATE 2: Game 4 between nGen.Light and ST_Ace was a very close one! Ace manages to extend his lead to 3-1, bringing him 1 game away from victory! UPDATE 3: ST_Ace micro's his ass off to take the 5th game, settling the grand final at 4-1! We have our winner!
Phew! Finally back in Brisbane. I ended up leaving the venue and going on a solo pub crawl (so many pikers, oh my god!) to kill the ~5 hours while I waited for my flight. So after being awake for 30 hours, flying interstate twice and drinking a fair bit, forgive me if any of this is difficult to understand! Just wanted to add a few comments before I sleep.
I saw this Battle.net broadcast from a person who didn't actually attend the event lastnight, and I couldn't help but question their reasoning.
To respond directly to the complaints in this screenshot -
@ 12 hours: Yes, it was a very long event. The organisers will be mindful of this in the future, and break the event down over the course of an entire weekend.
@ horrible qualifying/invite system: This was their first event, and they have insisted that they are very, VERY open to feedback. Many of us (Benji, deL, tgun, Shuffle) were present when Nick Popov mentioned that their next event (scheduled for August/September) will require a lot of direction from the players and the community. Their next event will have a much larger cash prize. Their next event will have state/online qualifiers, with paid flights to the grand finals. Their next event will feature more international invites, such as ST_Ace. Their next event will have commentating (and perhaps streaming, logistics to be explored).
Their next event will be more spectator friendly, with observers visible on the TV's all around the venue. Their next event will have plenty of notice (should be announced within 2 weeks). Their next event will have a more professional approach to brackets and seeding. And all of these features are based on feedback we presented to them. Instead of blindly complaining about how "horrible" an event you didn't attend was, a much better approach would be to help them improve the next one.
@ no coverage: I did so via 3 forums - sc2sea, wcreplays, and teamliquid. I also updated almost every game via my twitter. (dox_au) Whether I qualified for the finals or not, this was my objective. I managed to get my hands on every replay for the entire event and upload them within 5 minutes of the round being finished. I guess I'll try to improve on that next time.
@ no advertising: Again, thanks to our feedback, the organisation is now aware of the correct channels to advertise. The next one will be out there.
@ the money going off shore: this is really dumb, and I strongly doubt anyone actually cares. The opportunity to meet a professional gamer from Korea, and spend an entire day with him was a great experience for a lot of people who would otherwise never have this chance. Ace was a really nice guy, very polite, patient and fun to have around. I'm excited by the prospect of bringing more foreign gamers to Australia in the future. Ace worked his ass off just as much as everyone else in that event. Complaining that a Korean won the first prize infuriates me almost as much as that stupid NASL thread suggesting that Koreans shouldn't be eligible for prize money as to "invest" in the American community. If Australians want the money, they're gonna have to step up their game, simple as that. And 3 of our players showed that they're capable. YoonYJ, iaguz and Light all played fantastic games against Ace. They each took a game off him, and some of the others were very close.
And for my own personal feedback, here's a list of everything that comes to mind within 60 seconds:
Venue was fantastic. Only 4 issues were the uncomfortable chairs, the lighting (very difficult for good photos/videos), the lack of spectator support and the chinese default language on the computers. The 3rd and 4th issues were easily resolved, so that really only leaves chairs and lights to complain about. No biggie.
The guys running the tournament really deserved a huge thanks/congratulations. I doubt many people realised how much 3 guys were actually doing all day, with each of them taking ~20 rounds each and keeping games flowing, results up to date and IT issues resolved. They were very polite and also very direct at the same time. If they wanted someone to sit down and play, they made it happen. So yes, despite being a very long event, it could have been much longer. These guys really did a fantastic job, and I look forward to more of their events in the future.
In closing, thank you to everyone who attended and made it a memorable day, and congratulations to those who managed to show that they have what it takes to compete with the best of the best. The amount of cheering and clapping in the room each and every time we saw Ace type out GG created a very electric atmosphere.
EDIT: Just to clarify one thing for those who didn't attend - this is easily one of (if not absolutely) the biggest events we've ever had in Australian eSports. And the organisers have every intention to make the next one bigger and better, with 2 per year. This is SO big.
Dox is basically entirely correct. +1 to everything he said.
Light has a very refined style but the problem is that he opens this way every game. If he whipped out this style of gateway aggression once or twice a series, it'd be a lot better for him. After game 2 I just started opening blindly against assumed 3 gate aggression openings (didn't entirely work cuz I cocked a fair few things up, but well, you know.
Good writeup Dox, there is certainly room for improvement future NRG events, but yesterday's event was not bad at all.
Iaguz: I usually switch up between 2Gate Robo/expo or 3 Gate pressure depending on spawning positions, and pull out occasional 4gate or Stargate expo/play. On our second game I 2gate Robo'd because I thought you were close air.... turned out my probe just didn't see the CC in the close spawns T_T. On our 4th game you totally crushed me when I saw 6 marauders move out into the middle of the map, catching my sentries completely off guard, at that moment I knew you were catching on to my build. Our 5th game I decided to go 2 gate expo into double forge, hopefully switching it up a bit. I understand we both made mistakes and stuff as we were so tired, but nontheless it was a great pleasure playing you sir.
Few observations/notes I want to add:
- YYJ was very mannered and nice yesterday, he came around greeting everyone, and the leaving on game 3 was just extremely mannered even though he could have floated and forced a draw.
- It is unfortunate we didn't see Tgun advance very far (even though he is one of the best players there yesterday), he will need to fix his ZvZ to really destroy all his competition.
- Sorry for team-killing you nGenBenji and nGenStarHunter (who invested a lot in airfare to fly over to play/socialize)
- Once again, TAScarecrow and TARossi ended up with very nice standings, having improved tremendously from the first time I watched them play!
- Everyone there was nice and friendly, and I thank everyone for supporting me (TA/nGen/Azz/CjC/Staff/Everyone else) when I went on my run of adrenaline through the lower bracket (Was averaging close to 300apm on every game), totally forgetting about what being "tired" was. I was so exhausted after Yoon's games but I think my adrenaline kept me going through Iaguz's games. My adrenaline died as soon as I knew I was going up against Ace.
- Ace is just incredible and plays on a complete different level, watching him make 100% crisp moves during warm-up and games really made you understand the difference between casual gamers and a professional who TRAINS 15 hours a day, it was like witnessing perfect micro, perfect macro, perfect decision making. Now I am certain that I do not want to improve no more in SC2, there is no way I can possibly be on that level to compete without SC2 being my job (which isn't an option financially or family opinion).
- With that said, I have high hopes for SEA SC2 level as we were able to take 3 games off him yesterday! 3 games off the freaking IEM champion!
- Had a lot and a lot of fun!
Last edited by nGenLight; Sun, 3rd-Apr-2011 at 2:17 PM.
- Everyone there was super cool, mannered and seemed to have fun (especially the staff, they were serious but could joke around)
- Tournament needs work (not the way the brackets fell, I understand things like that will happen), but finding out your matches themselves was fairly hard
- Computers / settings were great. Being able to swap in my own peripherals was also very helpful.
- My ZvZ needs work.
- Not being able to play ACE was a huge letdown for me, not even in a practice match
- Light, the baller that he is, was friendly the whole time and lived up to my expectations of at least top8
- SEAs general competition & skill level is a lot higher than I generally give it credit for
And to top the night off, I got off the train at 11:40 with my phone being out of batteries, no idea what my parents / girlfriends # is or money and had to run the 1hr home.
But hey, my dad was lucky that day (up >$1k in bets), so there's where my luck went.
Was definately an awesome experience, and anyone who had the chance to go and didn't missed out heaps.
I've just downloaded all my footage (almost 2 hours!) and I'll begin editing tonight. So much to do! I'm hoping the audio came out okay without a microphone.
I've just downloaded all my footage (almost 2 hours!) and I'll begin editing tonight. So much to do! I'm hoping the audio came out okay without a microphone.
This man runs around doing pretty much everything for the center, should've been paid for his work! Lunch is the least I can do to contribute.
I think they should have had better coverage in the sense that I think there should have been 1-2 casting streams so that people all around the world could watch the event. As well as this I think the qualifiers could have maybe been held online, that way everyone can qualify fairly and these 'pros' don't just get a free spot into the tourney. I feel like they should qualify just the same as everyone else. Not that it makes much of a difference but I would rather this equality in the tournament.
I think they should have had better coverage in the sense that I think there should have been 1-2 casting streams so that people all around the world could watch the event. As well as this I think the qualifiers could have maybe been held online, that way everyone can qualify fairly and these 'pros' don't just get a free spot into the tourney. I feel like they should qualify just the same as everyone else. Not that it makes much of a difference but I would rather this equality in the tournament.
I think for other Australian players there should be aone online qualifier for out-of-state players (and you have to pay for entry before you play in the event, to ensure they show up). For international players a direct invite is fine, lots of tournaments do it, and offline qualifiers for Sydney-based players is also a lot of fun.
A stream is a bit trickier as it's just an internet cafe not a booth or venue like MLG and GSL have. To have commentators that the players can't hear would require a fair bit of effort and planning and it would be restricted to moderate quality because of the internet. It could certainly be done but elsewhere has the infrastructure and much larger fanbases to make it viable.
However there are a few things that could be done to increase exposure overseas or on a live stream (which I think sponsors would appreciate) and on-site to make spectating a bit easier. I think Unstable and myself will probably make some recommendations about that.
I think they should look to spread the prizepool further down to say top 16. If 1st was $6000-7000 instead of $8000 and cash prizes went down to 16th place then a lot more local players would be rewarded and that would mean there's less ill feeling about having a lot of big-name invites from Korea or elsewhere coming to sweep all the prizemoney.
___________________________________
Brendan "TAdeL" Ferguson Clan TA | Twitter | YouTube
- Ace is just incredible and plays on a complete different level, watching him make 100% crisp moves during warm-up and games really made you understand the difference between casual gamers and a professional who TRAINS 15 hours a day, it was like witnessing perfect micro, perfect macro, perfect decision making. Now I am certain that I do not want to improve no more in SC2, there is no way I can possibly be on that level to compete without SC2 being my job (which isn't an option financially or family opinion).
- With that said, I have high hopes for SEA SC2 level as we were able to take 3 games off him yesterday! 3 games off the freaking IEM champion!
- Had a lot and a lot of fun!
Light u took a game off one of the best players in the world, with alot less practice, dont think like that, you can do it!
be constructive, you have a talent, dont let it go to waste, i am not anywhere near your level and i am stuck working 60+ hours a week, but I am not giving up!
I will win GSL one day, AND SO WILL YOU JUST KEEP GOING MAN !!
Would be nice to see the top 12 players recognised in the OP just as they were at the awards ceremony. All won significant hardware prizes ($200-$450) over a very deep field and 3 travelled interstate to be there.
That said I'm stoked Light managed to pull such a great result, the $2k plus taking a game off a progamer was well earned.
Tourney was disorganized in parts but they were approaching many of us about feedback and I'm sure the next one will run far smoother. Thanks to the staff for working a ridiculous 15 hour shift!
Great to meet so many fellow SC'ers, hopefully see you all at the next one. The promise of 3 more of these with this as a minimum prize pool should be ample motivation for the community.
Congrats also to YYJ, Iaguz and Light for taking games off Ace.
I've started editing all of the video footage I recorded and it's coming along quite nicely. Unfortunately I haven't been able to stay awake longer than 2-3 hours at a time and keep passing out. Still recovering from such an exhausting trip. :/
Could someone direct me to how I could provide feedback to the organisers of the event? I left early so I didn't get the opportunity.
Complications aside, I thought the event was awesome. To the haters, SEA e-sports is in its infancy and this tournament was a big step in growing that. Yes improvements could be made, but its up to the community to give them plenty of feedback even if you didn't go so that they can improve this event for the future.
It'll be interesting to see how this event improves in the future. I do have some concerns about the size of the venue if it does grow, the aisles were a bit crowded and with a lot of crowding behind ace :P. The double elimination format did make the tournament extremely long which is why I left early as I figured I wouldn't be able to stick around for the end. I still like the venue and the double elim format though but I would love to see this event grow into an MLG-like tournament for Australia, maybe make it run over 2 days and expand to larger venues.
I sort of want to rant about the turn out for the qualifiers and the main event, I really feel that a lot of people should have came to watch or try to qualify just to show interest. Sponsors are putting a lot of money into this and I feel that the community should respond by turning up to justify the money the sponsors are putting in.
Great work, report and pics Dox. Don't worry, I'll be flying up from Melbourne for the next one, so assuming you're attending I'll join you on a pub-crawl after ^^;
I've registered as ESports Daily, granted, but as an introduction my name is Darren Kwan, and my alias is 'Kwan'.
I am one of the esports advocates here in Australia, and I work closely with the development of esports in our region.
It's great to see such positive feedback and most of you seem to be very level headed. I want to hear from each one of you on what you have to say about the event, please feel free to contact me at darren.kwan@esportsdaily.com.au
I did notice people have questions and concerns about the 'vision' behind the competition, if anyone has any questions about the development of esports in Australia, or would like some kind of informative explanation from someone who works behind the scenes please feel free to contact me and ask I am more than willing to explain!
I hope everyone who attended enjoyed the event, I sure did... until it dragged on and on haha!
I would also like to hear what people's thoughts are on how events like this can be improved, NRG is just one company interested in esports, being a loss-leader branch of Alltech, they use it for tax write-offs. There are more company's like BenQ, Intel, and so on who would easily organise similar (large cash prize) events. So please feel free to contact me over these matters as well!
Edit: That was me in Dox's picture, as if you couldn't tell. I'm perfectly fine with having my opinions public.
Dox, you can always just message me on MSN or Twitter to talk about it, or at least let me know you did all that.
You're mistaking my overly critical abuse as something bad (well, it kinda is), but it's just the way I am - especially after being a fan of the scene for such a long time and seeing every tournament manage to **** itself up in more ways than could be detailed in the kama sutra.
My criticism isn't saying that I don't want this tournament to take place - quite the opposite, I care very, very ******* passionately about esports and I want to make sure that when there's real significant money (twenty ******* thousand dollars) that it gets used in the most efficient and best way possible (read: not what MLG did). All of your points are valid and are the exact things I think the organisers should've investigated BEFORE the tournament.
@Length: At least now they're 100000% aware that they have to do this over two or three days, because one day for a super giant tournament is really, really bad.
@The invite system: Again, at least now they know what's wrong with it and how to fix it for next time. The pictures look pretty good and I'm sure the stuff you said will happen (TV showing games etc)
@Coverage: This is my really huge gripe - you weren't employed by NRG to do coverage for them, nor was there ANYONE doing actual coverage (y'know, like, posting results in real time on an NRG-related site), so you went beyond what you had to do and I'm sure everyone is thankful. My problem, once again, is that YOU did it - not someone that was being paid to actually run the tournament.
@Advertising: Not even an official thread on TL, this is really, really bad. Even the ******* prize distribution wasn't known. The 'oh well, it's their first time' argument for this point is by no means valid.
@Money going to KR: I'd have been fine with this if they had made it known that Ace was coming to the tournament more than a week away from it. Because of the poor qualification system lots of people had to spend a fair bit of money to go to a tournament that they had a realistic shot to win - and then the IEM World Champion rocks up with an invite. That isn't fair (and for what it's worth, I have the exact same feelings towards IEM for their retarded Korean selection process for IEM world finals, but I digress...)
A huge problem I see in the scene at the moment is the huge influx of 'new' people to esports that haven't seen leagues crumble because organisers think that throwing money at a problem will fix it. They therefore see that the NASL/IGN/whoever is throwing a few hundred thousand into the pool and automatically exclaim that this is 'a good thing for esports'. If the money goes to waste, then it won't be. Judging by the feedback I've gotten from everyone post-event, the people running it did a super great job, hell, even better than MLG (although, that isn't saying much).
I tried to have a long chat with Unstable about my thoughts but he shrugged me off with a "deL and I talked about this for an hour at the event", basically my train of thought is totally baller and even deL agrees. But my basic idea is that the people running the NRG stuff are open to suggestion, and aren't going to be incredibly stubborn in how they run things, so we're able to see them as a blank canvas that will turn into something beautiful instead of something big that is trying to branch out and do a horrible job at it (MLG lololoolol).
Anyway, back to my original thoughts: I'm really looking forward to seeing how well they rectify the problems of this one, and I'm sure they'll listen to the people that they have to. Also I agree with deL 100% on the prize distribution being less top-heavy, especially since they had a long qualification process. I probably should've gone to this one if someone (cough Darren cough) had said he was going, but alas, such is life. I guess I want to go to the next one, let's hope all goes well. I sure hope this is legible, since I just wrote it at 3am, oh well!
Last edited by frequency; Tue, 5th-Apr-2011 at 3:16 AM.
Sorry for not letting you know I posted that here, I'd just gotten home from Sydney, typed that up and went straight to bed for nearly 24 hours, heh. I think there's a much better way to present your opinion though. A public battle.net broadcast full of swearing isn't really the most delicate way to go about it.
Just with regards to advertising, the marketing guys didn't even know Team Liquid existed. They'd never played/seen StarCraft 2 before, so this was a big learning experience for them. tgun had TL open on his screen and was showing them what it is and explaining how important it was to advertise there. Nick replied with, "Cool, now we know for next time. "
It's not like they knew where to advertise but chose not to. They actually had no idea!
In the history of all Australian events in the last 12 years, I've never seen a single one where someone was employed to provide live coverage of an event. Nearly every SC/WC3/CS/UT event I can think of incorporated me manually updating a forum or a bracket somewhere with results. In most cases from my phone, since many venues didn't have any internet access (WCG, for example). The point I'm making is I really wouldn't expect it from them again next time, but nonetheless I'll be there to provide coverage anyway.
And finally in response to not knowing about Ace coming, they'd announced from day 1 that the grand finals would consist of "international masters from Korea!" or something like that. I'm sure if anyone asked specifically who that was, they'd have told us. I really don't see the big deal about Ace not having to qualify via some predefined structure. Sure, it's nice to have things done fairly and properly, etc. But really, for an event like this, it built a lot of type and it made a lot of people happy. I see no reason to be so rigid with things this early on. If BoxeR, MorroW and SeleCT get free seeds to the next event, I still don't think people will mind.
Yep, it was written on the website from the beginning that top players would be invited to the event. With a first place prize bigger than MLG dallas', did you not at least 1 top player coming down to take it?
As for allowing the money to go offshore, I don't understand why you would want to slow the growth of e-sports. Allowing international players to compete will put some focus on this Australian tournament and international players will travel down to compete and create a lot of buzz around the event. Big prize pools are a requirement to attract these players and create buzz around the event. If only locals can compete, some relatively unknown australian (no-one overseas will know him) will win the prize. Best case scenario he gets picked up by a sponsor and gets sent overseas which puts the spotlight on him and not this event. Otherwise he pretty much disappears off into obscurity after winning a huge tournament.
For their inexperience, they ran the tournament quite well and even though they didn't market it very well, bringing down ace was awesome!
I also want to add that it might be a good idea to contact Doa or whoever is casting GSL code A next season to talk about the fact that Ace had recently won 8k in this Australian tournament when Ace is having his GSL games. Might even be worth contacting tastosis and telling them about it if they talk about Ace's code A matches or something. A lot of people still don't know about this tournament or the fact that Ace had just won $8k from it so hopefully someone has the channels to get the information out there.
Last edited by FishBones; Tue, 5th-Apr-2011 at 12:31 PM.
In the history of all Australian events in the last 12 years, I've never seen a single one where someone was employed to provide live coverage of an event. Nearly every SC/WC3/CS/UT event I can think of incorporated me manually updating a forum or a bracket somewhere with results. In most cases from my phone, since many venues didn't have any internet access (WCG, for example). The point I'm making is I really wouldn't expect it from them again next time, but nonetheless I'll be there to provide coverage anyway.
- ive been to the venue
- ive seen their PC setup
- ive seen their network limitations.
Live coverage is 100% possible. and would take very little effort to setup. both internet/hardware and noise wise. if they don't do it next time they will be a write off in my eyes.
By live coverage i mean physical casters onsite. casting during the day for people at the event. streaming online.
for a quick example.
They have 2 almost sound proof from what i saw PC rooms. add headsets = no sound from a stage of casters placed on the other end of the venue where the PC's were setup.
that streamed online with. german chinese and russian langage casters aswell. put 2 competitors in room A and cast that, while game is being cast put 2 to setup in room B
repeat all day for constant coverage.
obviously i have bigger more indepth plans for it. but you get my basic idea
Last edited by Unstable; Tue, 5th-Apr-2011 at 1:24 PM.
Just to clarify, I didn't suggest that "live coverage" wasn't possible, I was just pointing out that pretty much every Australian "offline" eSports event to date hasn't had such a thing, so to expect these guys to provide it would be an anomaly. And by live coverage, I mean real-time results, bracket updates, replays, etc. Typically this stuff all comes a few days after the event is over. I wasn't referring to commentary or streams.
As for casting/streaming, I'd say due to the nature of SC2 being perpetually online, you'd be better off commentating the event off-site, as to avoid any infrastructure limitations. (ie. You could do it just as easily from home and still reap the same benefits.)
In light of the discussion on page 2 of this thread, I'd really like to highlight this post by InControl's partner:
Quote:
Work groups with positive to negative interaction ratios of 3:1 are significantly more productive than teams that do not reach this ratio. That’s not to say we shouldn’t ever have negative interactions – it’s necessary to address tough issues and hold each other accountable – what it does mean, though, is that positivity brings about change. When we mindlessly flame or troll an organization, person, or situation, we may feel better, we may get agreement from our peers, but rarely will we truly get the ear of those who are capable of implementing change.
edit: dox this is not a personal attack on you whatsoever just a vent of my frustrations of the large misconception the community seems to have atm.
I'm Trying to figure out if you just don't understand what is needed to grow something like this, or are just against any criticism whatsoever.
I have never said this was a waste of time for an event. just like frequency said we are putting over 30 hours a week into esports on top of our 9-5 jobs to make things work. and to see someone with the financial backing coming in and completely wasting it. is unnacceptable.
There is a direct correlation between the size of a community and the way their events are run. Was the NRG tournament a success? To the players yes, but to the person footing the bill ABSOLUTELY NOT. anyone who says otherwise is flat out lying to you, or a complete moron. Throwing money at something does NOT fix it.
When gamers think of sponsors they think yay they want esports to grow. While that may be true in some respect it is NOT the main reason they sponsor events. They sponsor events because it is the most cost effective advertising they can get.
So lets look at the NRG event with $25,000 in prizes etc. Thats $25,000 that saw a total of about 200 people (im doubling up numbers due to qualifiers etc) that were directly involved. Add in live updates + live coverage. i see at least 500k unique hits. and this is a conservative number considering the last fxo event for $1500 had 200k hits
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dox
I was just pointing out that pretty much every Australian "offline" eSports event to date hasn't had such a thing, so to expect these guys to provide it would be an anomaly. And by live coverage, I mean real-time results, bracket updates, replays, etc. Typically this stuff all comes a few days after the event is over.
What is the point in that.............. People will not care about just results to something unless they had no interest in watching the event anyway and just want to see who won. Keeping spectators in the loop. I mean cmon dude, updating challonge and having a link to it in the OP of TL/sc2sea etc is really hard? its 10x easier to what they were doing at the event.
If an event is to succeed in todays environment, these kinds of things are not just needed, they are critical to an events success. . SO if people want the event to be a success they SHOULD expect it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dox
As for casting/streaming, I'd say due to the nature of SC2 being perpetually online, you'd be better off commentating the event off-site, as to avoid any infrastructure limitations. (ie. You could do it just as easily from home and still reap the same benefits.)
WHAT? dude no, close your mouth before you embarass yourself. Like i said above, no infastructure limitations exist for their event. it is 100% doable. and same benefits? where would the following be
- live interviews on stream with winners
- giving the viewer the feeling they are at the event
- interviews with staff/ live updates etc
- coverage of the opening/closing parts of the event
If what you say is the case, why is tasteless/artosis onsite for gsl. why wheat/day9 for mlg.
It's about making people feel part of the event. Thats what makes them succeed. not just the players who are there but also the spectators. sc2 will not succeed on the players. it will succeed on the spectators.
Last edited by Unstable; Tue, 5th-Apr-2011 at 9:06 PM.
Have to agree with what Unstable says there, Dox. Note that with this criticism he is not attacking your personal coverage of the event that you took on yourself, but just suggesting it be done in a more organised manner when there is more time available and more resources to mobilise.
___________________________________
Brendan "TAdeL" Ferguson Clan TA | Twitter | YouTube
I agree with Unstable, we should look at replicating events such as the FXO invitationals etc but with the advantages of a LAN (as mentioned) instead of trying to replicate the smaller lans we already have. Overseas viewers don't want to watch a $350 Lan, and the SEA community is happy with the updates and a writeup at the end. For a LAN this size overseas viewers WILL be interested (as it attracts international players), and we also need to think big so we can entice the sponsors to continue hosting it.
Edit: That was me in Dox's picture, as if you couldn't tell. I'm perfectly fine with having my opinions public.
Dox, you can always just message me on MSN or Twitter to talk about it, or at least let me know you did all that.
You're mistaking my overly critical abuse as something bad (well, it kinda is), but it's just the way I am - especially after being a fan of the scene for such a long time and seeing every tournament manage to **** itself up in more ways than could be detailed in the kama sutra.
My criticism isn't saying that I don't want this tournament to take place - quite the opposite, I care very, very ******* passionately about esports and I want to make sure that when there's real significant money (twenty ******* thousand dollars) that it gets used in the most efficient and best way possible (read: not what MLG did). All of your points are valid and are the exact things I think the organisers should've investigated BEFORE the tournament.
@Length: At least now they're 100000% aware that they have to do this over two or three days, because one day for a super giant tournament is really, really bad.
@The invite system: Again, at least now they know what's wrong with it and how to fix it for next time. The pictures look pretty good and I'm sure the stuff you said will happen (TV showing games etc)
@Coverage: This is my really huge gripe - you weren't employed by NRG to do coverage for them, nor was there ANYONE doing actual coverage (y'know, like, posting results in real time on an NRG-related site), so you went beyond what you had to do and I'm sure everyone is thankful. My problem, once again, is that YOU did it - not someone that was being paid to actually run the tournament.
@Advertising: Not even an official thread on TL, this is really, really bad. Even the ******* prize distribution wasn't known. The 'oh well, it's their first time' argument for this point is by no means valid.
@Money going to KR: I'd have been fine with this if they had made it known that Ace was coming to the tournament more than a week away from it. Because of the poor qualification system lots of people had to spend a fair bit of money to go to a tournament that they had a realistic shot to win - and then the IEM World Champion rocks up with an invite. That isn't fair (and for what it's worth, I have the exact same feelings towards IEM for their retarded Korean selection process for IEM world finals, but I digress...)
A huge problem I see in the scene at the moment is the huge influx of 'new' people to esports that haven't seen leagues crumble because organisers think that throwing money at a problem will fix it. They therefore see that the NASL/IGN/whoever is throwing a few hundred thousand into the pool and automatically exclaim that this is 'a good thing for esports'. If the money goes to waste, then it won't be. Judging by the feedback I've gotten from everyone post-event, the people running it did a super great job, hell, even better than MLG (although, that isn't saying much).
I tried to have a long chat with Unstable about my thoughts but he shrugged me off with a "deL and I talked about this for an hour at the event", basically my train of thought is totally baller and even deL agrees. But my basic idea is that the people running the NRG stuff are open to suggestion, and aren't going to be incredibly stubborn in how they run things, so we're able to see them as a blank canvas that will turn into something beautiful instead of something big that is trying to branch out and do a horrible job at it (MLG lololoolol).
Anyway, back to my original thoughts: I'm really looking forward to seeing how well they rectify the problems of this one, and I'm sure they'll listen to the people that they have to. Also I agree with deL 100% on the prize distribution being less top-heavy, especially since they had a long qualification process. I probably should've gone to this one if someone (cough Darren cough) had said he was going, but alas, such is life. I guess I want to go to the next one, let's hope all goes well. I sure hope this is legible, since I just wrote it at 3am, oh well!
See, it's posts like these which are truly a waste of time.
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Originally Posted by frequency
She's an idiot, and so is her boyfriend.
You blindly ignored the fact that what I quoted was written by John Gottman, not her, or her boyfriend. So your absent opinion on the two of them contributed absolutely NOTHING to this thread, and ironically, that's the exact topic the post was addressing.
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Originally Posted by Unstable
I'm Trying to figure out if you just don't understand what is needed to grow something like this, or are just against any criticism whatsoever.
I'm pretty sure I have a fairly good idea considering I spent the last entire decade doing just that.
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I have never said this was a waste of time for an event.
I don't know where this came from, I never accused you of that.
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and to see someone with the financial backing coming in and completely wasting it. is unnacceptable.
I think there's a very big difference between "wasting" and "not fully capitalising." If we did not meet with Nick Popov and highlight all of their mistakes, and guide them towards a more successful future event, then it would have been a complete waste. But we did meet with him. And he is aware of their mistakes, their lack of promotion, their short notice, their lack of stream and coverage, everything. So it wasn't all for nothing. We now have an opportunity to work closely with Nick to ensure the next event is done 100% correctly. To me, I see that as a very valuable and successful building block. You can whinge and complain that it "should have been done right the first time" but it's a fact of life. Nothing's ever perfect straight out of the box.
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So lets look at the NRG event with $25,000 in prizes etc. Thats $25,000 that saw a total of about 200 people (im doubling up numbers due to qualifiers etc) that were directly involved. Add in live updates + live coverage. i see at least 500k unique hits. and this is a conservative number considering the last fxo event for $1500 had 200k hits
Just to be clear, their goals most definitely don't align with FXO's goals. They just wanted to generate local hype with this event. They got more than they bargained for when interstate players started showing up. (Incidentally some articles appeared on websites such as ESFI World anyway.)
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What is the point in that.............. People will not care about just results to something unless they had no interest in watching the event anyway and just want to see who won. Keeping spectators in the loop. I mean cmon dude, updating challonge and having a link to it in the OP of TL/sc2sea etc is really hard? its 10x easier to what they were doing at the event.
I'm just going to ask you to read my previous post again because this entire paragraph is invalid. I wasn't suggesting how things should be, I was just explaining how things have been for the past 12 years. It really frustrates me when I write something clearly and I'm taken for an idiot when someone doesn't read it properly.
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If an event is to succeed in todays environment, these kinds of things are not just needed, they are critical to an events success. . SO if people want the event to be a success they SHOULD expect it.
Of course, I never suggested otherwise. I was merely pointing out that there was uproar over the lack of live coverage when this sort of thing has never happened in any local Australian event before. If this doesn't make sense, please say so and I'll clarify further with a list of examples.
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WHAT? dude no, close your mouth before you embarass yourself.
There's no need to be rude.
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Like i said above, no infastructure limitations exist for their event. it is 100% doable. and same benefits? where would the following be
Sorry I didn't mean to imply a specific event, I just meant for StarCraft 2 in general. I think I worded that poorly though.
Now I'm going to do my best to be as succinct as possible here in clarifying each and every point I've been trying to make:
* I'm not saying negative feedback is bad or useless. It's valuable. Critical, even.
* "____ is f_cking shit" does not qualify as feedback. It's just blind raging. The article I linked in my previous post explains this very clearly.
* I've watched the rise and fall of dozens of Australian "eSports ventures" over the last decade. It's all well and good to put in whatever effort you can squeeze in after your 9-5 each day, but I worked directly under WCG, Samsung, CBN Media, Blizzard Entertainment and various other pillars for nearly a whole decade. 15+ hours a day, 7 days a week. I was commentating huge cash tournaments on a stage in front of thousands of people in the Melbourne Exhibition Center 7 years ago. I was employed full-time to fly around the country and co-ordinate qualifiers for global events and amongst it all - I can guarantee you that each and every time, it was community negativity that caused the scene to crash. There was always plenty of money, plenty of sponsors and plenty of interest. But these communities tore themselves apart. And they were a lot bigger and a lot closer than the current SC2 community is.
* And thus, the reason I'm so enthusiastically begging people to keep a clear, mature and constructive state of mind is to avoid yet another repetition in this historical cycle of failure. I simply don't want to see it happen again with another game. Work together, don't flame eachother, and most importantly, don't trash talk the people who fail to deliver perfection the first time they try their hand at something. Everything comes with time and experience.
I think there's a very big difference between "wasting" and "not fully capitalising." If we did not meet with Nick Popov and highlight all of their mistakes, and guide them towards a more successful future event, then it would have been a complete waste. But we did meet with him. And he is aware of their mistakes, their lack of promotion, their short notice, their lack of stream and coverage, everything. So it wasn't all for nothing. We now have an opportunity to work closely with Nick to ensure the next event is done 100% correctly. To me, I see that as a very valuable and successful building block. You can whinge and complain that it "should have been done right the first time" but it's a fact of life. Nothing's ever perfect straight out of the box.
I never expected them to be perfect the first time around. i do however expect them to do some research at all. Simple things like, format, maps and how to do brackets would have taken all of an hour? if that of simple googling. I agree with you that its good they are listening to the feedback, however it is very clear they didn't do any research whatsoever in the first place.
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Originally Posted by Dox
Just to be clear, their goals most definitely don't align with FXO's goals. They just wanted to generate local hype with this event. They got more than they bargained for when interstate players started showing up. (Incidentally some articles appeared on websites such as ESFI World anyway.)
Dude, i was not comparing fxo and nrg's goals, i was comparing the expectations for their sponsor backers. which most definatly are the same since they are both businesses, but on that subject. FXO's Goals "To create a regular and sustainable tournaments for the sc2 international community" all you have to do is change international to Australian and you will find they are exactly the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dox
I'm just going to ask you to read my previous post again because this entire paragraph is invalid. I wasn't suggesting how things should be, I was just explaining how things have been for the past 12 years. It really frustrates me when I write something clearly and I'm taken for an idiot when someone doesn't read it properly.
Just because something has been done a certain way previously doesn't mean that it's unreasonable to expect differently. That is why people are not understanding why you are defending their position.
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Originally Posted by Dox
Of course, I never suggested otherwise. I was merely pointing out that there was uproar over the lack of live coverage when this sort of thing has never happened in any local Australian event before. If this doesn't make sense, please say so and I'll clarify further with a list of examples.
We seem to be going in circles, You come with it hasn't happened in the AU scene before so why do we expect it. And i come back with "this is whats required for a successful event" Online streaming is one of the tipping points that has made E-Sports viable from a business/sponsor backing perspective. It has become mandatory for any event, and why they didn't take the time to look into it screams that they have 2 possible trains of thought which i will elaborate at the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dox
And thus, the reason I'm so enthusiastically begging people to keep a clear, mature and constructive state of mind is to avoid yet another repetition in this historical cycle of failure. I simply don't want to see it happen again with another game. Work together, don't flame eachother, and most importantly, don't trash talk the people who fail to deliver perfection the first time they try their hand at something. Everything comes with time and experience.
Before I say what I am about to, i will make very clear that I already offered to run their Coverage for their next event, including setup of all the live streaming hardware, configuration and multi language casters to help with the event.
There is a difference between getting something almost right and room to improve on their first attempt. To what happened at NRG the first time around. It was very clear they did little to no research at all. The fact that they are so ready to listen to the community screams multiple possible things to me.
1) They are just saying so to keep gamers happy, which has been done before and they will attempt to improve but it will not happen in time for their sponsors to b e happy.
2) they are doing a backhanded way of trying to get the gaming community to do their job for them. It became very clear that this could be their plan after a comment made to me at the end of the event of "I wont be organising this again gamers will be organising it". While at first glance this can be interpreted as a "sweet they will let the most experienced handle it" it also can be that they wish to pass the burden about organising the event from themselves to the gamers. so they have an out when their sponsors come back and go "where is our exposure".
We are both on the same side Dox, as we both want esports in AU to grow, However you are underestimating the impact of the exposure that sponsors want and expect from an event, Previous events didn't have the online coverage and live viewers etc, these all count as impressions for the sponsors. they completely overshadow any event that we use to have simply because it wasn't available back then. While there is merit to what you are saying about only giving constructive feedback, its clear that new things need to be done to make it viable in AU.
All the previous attempts at an e-sport scene in AU have failed. as you said at the LAN the largest was what 5k? and that wasn't considered feasible. For 25k they expect much much more, which is perfectly doable as long as its done correctly. And its not unreasonable to expect a certain level from those putting on the event. This is why you get the group of people who write them off instantly because they haven't done anything different. if they really wanted to be different why wasn't it all done before the event? thats the question you have to ask.
The biggest divide that alot of sc2 players don't understand, is the business side of it all, myself del and frequency have had the opportunity to learn from someone who is a director of a billion dollar company so we have a lot more insight into these things which is why when we look at events we see them in a completely different light compared to others. and see pitfalls that others dont.
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