**sorry for shitty formatting and/or grammar errors, I usually just write and think about how shit it looks afterwards :^)**
I was thinking of writing a massive introduction explaining everything that I've personally dealt with and experienced during the 3 years of running one of the larger sc2sea clans, but honestly, I just want to open a discussion for one of the largest issues that is plaguing the sc2sea clan "scene" right now, and hopefully get some feedback on what should be done. As many of the usual users of this site have probably noticed, even though there was a lot of hype surrounding the release of LotV, the decline of clans and clan wars has continued unhindered by the hype of LotV and come to a complete halt. There hasn't been a clan war since once of the last weeks of HotS, and honestly, I don't think there will be many more given the course we're currently on. I believe the reason clans won't bounce back with LotV is that the issue is just too established and won't change without solid action.
The issue being players that are "Dual clanning"~
There are only 4 clans currently active on sc2sea; sR, ETL, mGG and FaDe. I don't see that number changing either, considering the fact there are people in some of these clans who are actually members of the the other 3 whilst remaining in their "main clan". 4 clans presents one of the bigger issues SEA's faced before, in the form of ladder: Things just get really stale when you're fighting the same handful of people. Asking ETL and mGG every other week for a repeat of the previous clan war with the same people, format and rivalry has just gotten old. It's at the point where clans aren't even actively seeking one-another out for wars, there's ****-all banter online (even mild banter.. none.) and I can't get myself to keep asking the same group for the same event week in and week out.
It was far more exciting and a great deal better when clans like DGTV, eMp, FS, TCP and many more were around. Not just to give me a choice or vary each weekend's clan war "flavour", but it truly felt like being in one of the clans meant something. When sR would go out to fight one of the big boys such as ToR, then the next day fight FS, and another 2 clans the next weekend... it felt exciting. The exact opposite of what fighting ETL then MAYBE fighting mGG/FaDe the next weekend feels like. It feels way too stale.
I'll go back to my point of "dual clanning", the reason I think shutting this sort've thing down (atleast to some extent) would help is it would give a player a greater identity, it'd create a greater gap between the clans, allow more banter, and perhaps bring about more exciting clan wars. The first step will just succeed in reshaping the clans into the individual entities they should be, the second step would need to open up the possibility of growth in other clans and open the door for new clans once more.
NEW CLANS. That's something we need.
Why aren't we getting many new clans? I'll tell you why, it's not solely because there "aren't enough people", it's because the new clans that do pop up can't compete with the likes of mGG/sR/ETL/FaDe muscling them out with their insanely extensive and almost entirely shared rosters. Look at HvG for example, a new clan full of a bunch of new people who showed a lot of promise; very recently closed their doors and merged into the larger clans like ETL. I had a little chat with Ice, their leader, and he mentioned how he wished they were one of the "top dogs" of SEA clans right now. This saddens me greatly, though there was a great deal of banter, myself and many members of sR had a great deal of respect for what Ice and HvG had accomplished, and what they wanted to accomplish. There are plenty more examples of clans that just dry up and die because they lack the strength when first developing to take on the ONLY other clans in SEA, who also happen to be the strongest thanks to how it's all worked out.
Atleast on the bright side I've heard chatter of a TA revival on the cards... I bloody hope so, not only because a bunch of those guys are mates, but also because it could provide a kick-start for healthy competition once more between sc2sea clans.
I can already see the arguments coming out of this being things along the lines of "but my friends are in x clan and i have other friends in y clan", this is something I can't just brush off and say "suck it up" because it comes down to how people individually feel. At the end of the day, do you want competition to return to the clans of sc2sea? Do you want clan leagues again? Do you want to be able to talk a bit of smack for being the best clan among a bunch of them? We need to splinter the clans back into their original forms somehow and open up room for growth. We need to make it a fair playing field instead of choking the competition out.
Sorry if I didn't produce many solutions to the issue, but I was really hoping for the community's input on a matter that's been a thorn in my side as a leader of a large clan for almost 3 years. We've got a thriving community on sc2sea thanks to the OSC system, why not bring our clan system up to scratch?
Thanks,
fry`Rice.
P.S. - To any leaders of clans that have disbanded who have read this and were already considering reforming your clan, please do. There are plenty of people available, you just need to get the ball rolling and start small.
** If you're also just someone who wants to start up a clan/thought about it, message me on Skype @ jessie6726 if you have any questions about it. I can, and will help you with anything.
also sc2sea =/= sc2. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of clans out there on b.net, you just need to get jiggy with them
Then it comes back to the issue of community. Its easy enough to join an American or any other clan, but then the issue of time zones becomes a relevant factor. sc2sea provided a great place to not only find a localish clan, but localish clans for your clan to pulverize into dust on a weekly basis.
I agree with deths points, it needs to be organic, you can't force it.
A big issue with recent clan wars has been no shows and rescheduling. There hasn't been interest there, or there are other sc2 options available, eg tournaments/events to watch.
Clans by nature are casual. Small groups of friends usually. I'm in a few clan chats, and it's mostly non sc2 chat, or when sc2, talking about events/balance, etc, with a few casual team games thrown in. Not serious practice, or desire to battle another clan (which in SEA consists of likely other friends, or players you can verse in tournaments that are available every day.)
The original big clan wars of 2010/11, eg aLt, TA, pre-dated teams, many tournaments, and the competitive scene as we have it now, so it was one of the only avenues top tier players had to showcase their skills, play in a 'team' environment, and be of interest to spectators.
Currently, the majority of active, Masters+ players compete on ladder and daily tournaments, (with team special events like SSTL, Race Wars thrown in) which takes up a lot of their time, and offers the most rewards. I also think playing in a fun 'clan war' against lower ranked players with no reward isn't really of interest.
I'd like to see SEA vs NA clan wars, where there would be slightly more interest and pride in repping not only your clan, but region. There are issues with ping, but splitting games between servers could work for now until a solution is found to the current situation. - International clan wars like Ukoter suggests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCPLemminks
also sc2sea =/= sc2. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of clans out there on b.net, you just need to get jiggy with them
This is true. There are quite a few non sc2sea SEA people playing on ladder unaware of the site/clans, etc. Especially now with match matching by preferred server (ANZ). I often ask where they are from, clan, etc, and sometimes hear of new clans/small groups of friends. If others ask these guys, we might see more 'clans' come here, and clan wars result.
As the leader of long time successful HotS clan 420nem, I feel like my opinion matters heavily on this subject
Part of me feels like the website itself is pretty important to promoting growth of the scene (and thus more potential for other clans/teams) I was actually going to make a serious post about revamping the website before the LotV release, but I ran out of time before I could make it. I feel like it's pretty difficult to navigate for new comers to the community and they can be discouraged from taking part in the community.
Sc2sea has all the tools it needs in order to be the hub of a thriving community (the early days of 2010-2011 is a good example of this). It's no secret that the majority of admins and moderators have lost interest or gotten too busy, but evident from this post there are some still around (love u lemminks). The scene has been so set in stone with 'the 4 super clans' for the past 2 years or so that it will be very difficult to establish another clan that would be capable of hosting clans wars or events etc.
The problem I see with the site, besides the obvious decline in userbase, is that it just feels hollow. A good amount of content on the main page can date back months. The amount of content creators on the website is at an all time low. There's no point discussing strategy on the forums, because teams and clans just discuss strategies in their respective skype chats.
What we need (especially at the start of the new expansion) is promotion. Maybe a plug from blizzard anz on their twitter account or some sort of exposure to help us bring the place back to life. Eddie and Philosopher do a fantastic job getting promotion for their tournaments, but it just ends up being Koreans and North americans signing up, taking the prize money, then not touching the community until the next masters cup or whatever. Those who signed up and aren't professional players or hardcore players would most likely get destroyed and not like the experience, possibly driving them away.
No BSG's or GPD's means less growth for the lower level players on the website and no noobschool or old TCP PRACBUD also makes it difficult for people to get into the scene. A lot of great clans had humble origins, and a lot of gm/master players now helped eachother when they were lower level to find an identity and get where they are now. Nurturing the bsg scene is so difficult now as its so so tiny (5 sign ups at most for when BSG cup was revived). So along with exposure, we need to somehow help out lower level and newer players to help them get invested into the scene and stick around.
I am really bad at expressing my opinions and articulating my opinions without sounding stupid or like I'm making a dumb suggestion (the fray guys know what I meam haha) so if I say something illogical or something that sounds uninformed pls no hate on me But i do want to atleast chime and and help contribute to this discussion.
Chase makes a lot of good points and I also agree with some of what sparrow said on the previous page. A lot of you guys know each other really well and it can feel quite exclusive. Hell, I've been a member since April 2013 yet it's really hard to find a spot to fit in. I was part of DGTV although their periods of activity seemed to mirror my periods of availability and now I'm officially part of FaDe but I rarely speak in the skype chat and god only knows if there is a clan section on here we could communicate in...
Chase is right a small redesign of the front page could be quite useful it is somewhat confusing as is but I wouldn't press for that without having the skill set to help out. As a quite bad player I've been looking for a little bit of a help in how to approach ladder and matches in LotV. I have many questions about how to play an older HotS style or try something completely new. Hell, I feel so lost I haven't even hit the ladder yet. So some investment in BSG could be helpful even if it is just a few players having a think and saying these are the structures you should be looking to make and these are the styles/strategies you can look to use. Again I'd be willing to do this myself but as above IM BAD. Certainly if there were a few more resources you could point it out elsewhere as an alternative to some of the other tools available. I love spawning tool but I'm not good enough to use it properly what is the step before that. sc2sea could be an option in having some basic guides and stratagies. I know these are on team liquid too but there also some really quality players here.
As for the clan/team divide, perhaps instigating a league system could help. There are a number of styles of league that could work with seeding and division and perhaps if the teams were willing could use it as a matter of pride. Make it similar to Proleague format only having to take one game off a titan doesn't seem like such a big deal, keep track of individuals map score as well as the league ladder could be a point of pride and competition.
I guess a lot of this comes back to people willing to volunteer their time and skills. No doubt we having an established base of skilled people here and could do many of these things but it is a casual hobby not a second job for most of us. Anyway I'm hoping to be more active cause you guys have a great community and I like SC2 a whole lot. Hopefully this continues the spread of ideas and opens a couple more eyes.
Adding the opinion of someone who does not matter.
I'm recently coming back to the scene after basically vanishing at the start of HOTS. This was due to several reasons, Family work ETC ETC. But i log back in an find there to be no active posts in BSG nothing. Not kknowing what when on since i left i find that a little worrying as i felt alot of the passion for the clan wars came from those in the BSG wanting to watch there clan mates succeed.
Also the sheer lack of diversity in clans, have all these ppl stopped playing? Have no new ppl come in? I used to admin alot of the clan wars when they where at there height. Now there is nothing. Maybe its just because we are more international. No one ladders under SEA its NA. So is that where all the new players go to NA Clans? Maybe i dont know.
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